The grind is already too much as-is. What you’re suggesting is right if you want to make the trees more organized, but it doesn’t solve the grind related issues in the game. Gaijin made an argument that they intend to fix some grind issues with the foldering, hence the top priority (considering grind is a significant issue) should be foldering vehicles that are least used under vehicles that are most used.
If grind reduction is not the driving factor, then Gaijin could simply find a different solution and not lay it all on foldering. For example reducing RP requirements overall, or removing module research, which would substantially increase RP gains.
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What drives me away from foldered vehicles isn’t their initial RP cost but the fact I’ll have to do like 50 battles to research relevant modules, have 0 fun in the process, and will likely be turned off by that aircraft at that point.
Thats an issue with any stock vehicle after rank 5, you just have to work yourself up to get over the stock hump of what ever it is, be it heat ammo in tanks, to the right missiles for top tier jets.
If you had actually looked at the list of our proposals the number of folders is the same if not a little more than what they presented, without it being a convoluted mess. People seem to have been blinded by the “reduced grind” and have blindly accepted it, when a much more organized tree can be produced with the same number of folders.
So I’m taking it you disagree with the way gaijin did it on the 1st attempt?
Gaijin did it incredibly poorly in the first attempt, with most of the changes seemingly based soley on Br’s. This means after a few rebalancings the folders will make even less sense, especially for air, where small adjustments in br up and down are very common. The proposal we put forward groups vehicles by their chassis or airframe, while keeping the same amount of folders as presented by their initial proposal. Take for example the american naval fighter line, they literally make it a mess, with stuff in folders everywhere, when in game currently all they would have to do is folder the buffalos and early corsairs into two folders to have an identical effect.
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I wasn’t responding to the proposal. I think the proposal is good.
Regarding stock grind - does it really have to be that way? People are stuck thinking it would be unreasonable to demand to cancel this, but for a very long time War Thunder existed without the stock grind experience.
New players see how well they can use low tier vehicles without the stock grind, right from the beginning. Then as they progress they’re frustrated with long vehicle research times, and then Gaijin wants to hit them with yet another painful demand (stock grind)? That’s called burning the candle from both ends.
Free FPE and parts (single use) are a nice change, but they were once truly free, multiple uses and all.
Low tier vehicles have AP rounds and have to research more types if they want better penetration or post-pen effects. If the same principle applied to higher tier vehicles, they’d get a weak stock APFSDS, which is actually available for implementation for all vehicles (some don’t have a historical alternative, but there are workarounds).
Stock HEAT is similar to letting low tier tanks start with only HE.
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Stock grind is indeed a problem. But I think that it is best handled by some other solution. Because foldering everything together to make peoples grind easier still doesn’t change the stock grind.
If you want my opinion on the matter I strongly think every tank should get a Solid and Chemical round as stock. So for high tier tanks that would be both a HEATFS and a APFSDS. Stock grind with HEATFS is not fun, I’ve been there.
Parts and FPE have never been much of a problem to me since I always play around cap points and I can repair there.
We have come a long way with stock grind tho. So when new people complain about it I always think: “You have no idea kid”.
It was way worse, parts and fpe were never free, honestly right now is the best we have ever had it
Stock grind is indeed a problem. But I think that it is best handled by some other solution. Because foldering everything together to make peoples grind easier still doesn’t change the stock grind.
Well that’s the solution Gaijin chose. I’d also rather have some other solution that would allow players to get to top faster without skipping vehicles that could be fun, but if Gaijin said they’ll do it by foldering, then that’s sealed. They don’t actually take any feedback or suggestions so once their mind is set, only review bombing helps.
We have come a long way with stock grind tho. So when new people complain about it I always think: “You have no idea kid”.
What are you referring to? With more tiers added to the game, every tank requires more and more RP to spade, and the balance issues hinder normal progression. If anything, I think it only became worse. The free FPE and parts are just one event but is absolutely overshadowed by the ongoing trend of more difficult-to-spade vehicles being added at the top.
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that last part shows how green you are, when i started playing ground the cost of the t54’s and is-3 was the same as that of the arbrams now. they have drastically reduced the rp requirements over the years as more stuff has been added.
I’m playing WT since launch.
Then you somehow missed the close to 5 or 6 rp reductions, to get the is-3 now its only 110k rp
Haven’t played ground until maybe last year. Anyway, it’s 110k now vs the Abrams at 270k. Fine, it’s half, but that’s not the full picture. To get the same amount of RP, a high tier vehicle like the M1 would need far more battles to earn the same amount of RP because many high tier vehicles today don’t actually get APFSDS until they reach tier 3 or 4. At the same time, SL consumption rose drastically as modules had to be bought and they are very expensive, plus the repair costs are huge and weren’t offset by kills because stock tanks don’t really get kills.
What usually happens is by a certain tier, you earn RP faster than you can afford new tanks. This only aggravates the further you go up in BR.
I think your missing the part where it started at 320k and moved down to 110k, that is a massive reduction, which is the same that all the rank 5 vehicles had literally years ago. The abrams in of itself was once over 320k and due to it being end of the line i am pretty sure every module was like 30k to unlock the same situation you had with the stock is-3 back in the day. As someone who has been playing tanks consitently since basically 2014 the rp reduction has been noticable and palpable, both in terms of getting the actual vehicles and spading them.
6k to get a rank 4 module for a rank 5 was unheard of 5 years ago and is now a standard, in combination with the reduced parts and fpe, now with the free repairs and fpe, and the grind to stock ammo to decent ammo is significantly less painful then it was and this is coming from someone who has spaded over half a thosand tanks.
Yes, getting to mid tiers is easier nowadays, but completing a tree is significantly more difficult.
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As explained it really isnt, though the argument of grind is not what this thread is about, we are discussing the new placement of folders, so this has strayed into off topic
The vehicles moving ranks is another issue entirely, and the sheer scale of it doesn’t conform in a workable way with that they have presented. They are going to have to adjust how ranks work with this as there are literally dozens of vehicles effected
I know this is off topic but why is the leopard 2a5 with the 2a6. I think it would make more sense if the leo2a5 and pso were foldered and the 2a6 and 7 are foldered separately as the pso is an upgraded 2a5 and the 2a7 is kinda an upgrade of the 2a6