Chilean Ground Forces Sub-tree

Suggestions Ground
41

I understand what you are saying, I also understand that the Israelis called it M-50 when they used the other cannon, it’s just that it is difficult to give it a name that is 100% correct, although I wouldn’t mind if it were called M-60, that name It would give a more unique and differentiable name from all the other models. If one day that Chilean tank is integrated, let Gaijin do his research and decide what name to give it. Anyway, here I will leave a photo that I downloaded from Instagram of the official army profile where they also named it M-50 (the white letters are original from the publication).

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I will leave the link to the original Instagram post too:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzy_zIeAnJi/?img_index=7

1 Like
42

Chilean just edit your tech tree image, and put M-50/M-60 in its name. That way it isn’t confused with the M-50 tank which at a time Chilie did use before upgunning and other modifications.

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43

Okay, I will change the name to M-60 HVMS but at some point in the future, I may have to modify something or add more information about the modernization of the Leopard 2A4CHL and I will take advantage of that moment to modify what you ask of me. I would also have to do it with my individual suggestion for that tank and I would have to ask a moderator to change its name in the Chile list.

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44

As long as you make it clear what the platform was originally we get it.

45

M113A2 with KBA would be 6.3 likely. I made a suggestion for the similar M113 1/2 CV for the American Tech Tree but it unfortunately disappeared after being approved :(

Some more info on the gun and turret which are shared between the two vehicles:
Turret
It’s an Oerlikon GBD-ADA turret. This powered turret has 360 degrees of traverse and from -12 to +52 degrees of elevation. Protection only against machine gun fire.
Armament
The vehicle is armed with an unstabilized 25mm Oerlikon KBA-B. This is a slightly modified variant of the base KBA found on the Italian Sidam. It has a slightly lower fire rate of 550RPM compared to 600.
Like the standard KBA, the KBA-B is a dual-feed system. 80 M791 APDS and 120 M792 HEI-T ammunition is ready to fire.

The YPR-765 is a slight modification of the AIFV. It’d be best at 7.0.
Turret
The YPR-765 mounts an FMC EWS turret. 360 degrees traverse, -10 to +50 elevation, and IIRC a twin-plane stabilizer. Protection is rather limited, only proof against 14.5mm machine guns all-around.
Armament
The KBA-B02 is found on several vehicles in-game and offers 561RPM. It’s again dual-feed with 75 M791 and 105 M792 ready rounds. There are an additional 144 rounds in the vehicle.

1 Like
46

I’m not sure if the Oerlikon KBA-B exists, I tried to search for it but I couldn’t find the specific model, it isn’t in the game either, anyway everything seems to show that the M113A2 barrel is actually an Oerlikon KBA-B02 like the ones you find in the game since I made some physical comparisons between the one in the game and the real photographs of the cannon, I leave you a comparison:

Oerlikon KBA 25 mm SIDAM 25

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Oerlikon KBA-B02 25 mm Type 87 BVR

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Do you notice how the tip of the cannon is different? In the B02 version it protrudes at the tip as well as in the barrel of the M113A2 KUKA from Chile, so I came to the conclusion that the one from Chile is actually a B02.

Photo of the cannon of the M113A2 KUKA from Chile, you can see that the cannon is different from that of the Italian SIDAM

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As for the turret, it is a GBD-AOA, here I leave a photo of its interior and its technical characteristics

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So in conclusion it is the same barrel as the YPR-765 that is why I gave it a similar BR on my tree.

Anyway, thank you very much for all your information and for taking the time to explain everything in such detail, I really appreciate it.

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47

The barrel of the KBA-B and KBA-B02 being the same makes sense as they are clearly very closely related vehicles. The difference between the B and B2 is likely in the feed mechanism, explaining the difference in fire rate (550 vs 561). Another consideration is ammunition, where the RCV has APFSDS. At least in Dutch service, the YPR only had M791 APDS. Not sure about in Chilean service.

And no problem, I love sharing my knowledge :)

Also it seems in game the fire rate of the SIDAM has been corrected to 550RPM since I last looked over it so disregard the “decreased fire rate” of the KBA-B lol

1 Like
48

Additional images of the Chilean variants of the Piraña, these being the Piraña 6x6 HJ-8, Piraña 6x6 HVMS and Piraña 8x8 CSE 90LP from Jane’s A&A magazine from 1991-92 and 1993-94

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3 Likes
49

I modified the Chilean sub tree due to the changes in the Devserver, now Israel has 2 separate lines for anti-tank and anti-aircraft so I moved the Chilean vehicles to each line accordingly, I added to the tree the new vehicles that Israel got in the Devserver, and I moved some Chilean vehicles that were from event/premium to researchable since Israel now has separate lines for anti-aircraft and anti-tank so now they fit perfectly as researchable and help fill in missing spaces

4 Likes
50

I added a summary about the history between Chile and Israel and the military and cooperative relations that these 2 countries have had over the years, this way people who do not know much about the relations between Chile and Israel will be able to have a better Idea as to why I decided to include Chile as a possible subtree for Israel both on the ground and in the air.

2 Likes
51

Are there any photos of the unmodified M-50s in Chile, with their 75mm guns? The only ones I can find are the 60mm ones, but I’ve read that Chile imported them and then modified them shortly after, so there should be some evidence of the originals right?

52

There should be a photo hidden somewhere but I have not been able to find any, it is difficult to find one since almost immediately when they arrived in Chile their cannons were changed, in fact I have a book about the Shermans in Chile and even there there is none photo.

2 Likes
53

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You can’t be serious. The HVMS gun fires two types of shells: M300 APFSDS, and a programmable HE shell (can act as HE, APHE, and HE-VT). M300 was specifically made to be able to take out T-55s and T-62s from 2km away, having a rated penetration of 120mm at 2000km @ 60° against RHA. For comparison, the T-54/55/62’s UFP is 100mm thick and angled at 59°. Heck, at below 800m, M300 can even penetrate the lower part of the UFP of the T-55AM-1 which has additional composite armor on it. It’s definitely a very powerful APFSDS for its caliber.

Also, manual reload is measured at 5sec per reload (12 rounds per minute), that’s pretty quick.

3 Likes
54

AFAIK Chile never operated HE for its HVMS guns. Sources only specifically mention the APFSDS; if HE-VT was used that would of course be a significant consideration in BR.

Now let’s compare various cannons on some lightly armoured vehicles around the BR. I’ll use 1km and 60 degrees as a baseline.

M331A2, M41A1, 6.3- 72mm, 5.9s
Shot Mk 3, Charioteer, 6.3- 96mm, 6.3s
M620A1, AUBL-74, 6.7- 125mm, 6.7s
M496, leKPz M41, 6.7- 127mm, 5.9s
M300, M24 HVMS, 6.7/7.0- 134mm, 5.0s
PG-9, Pbv 501, 6.7- 150mm, 6s (autoloaded)
Type 56 HEAT-FS, Type 62, 6.7- 150mm, 7.4s
M348, STA-2, 6.3- 153mm, 7.5s
OCC-60-62, ELC bis, 6.0- 160mm, 6.7s
M431, Type 61, 6.7- 160mm, 7.5s
M334A1, M50, 6.7- 217mm, 2.7s (average including belt reload)

So while the M300 is a great shell, especially for the calibre, it’s not the best around the BR. In fact, it’s middle of the pack in terms of penetration. While it is able to penetrate most vehicles up to 8.7, it’s also still a Chaffee and can be penetrated itself by most vehicles down to 2.7. The M24 despite the upgrades to its powertrain is not particularly mobile compared to more modern light vehicles at the Br it would share. Finally, while a 5 second reload is capable it provides a fire rate less than 25% increased over the majority of its competitors.

1 Like
55

You see to forget that unlike all the projectiles above it in pen, M300 is a kinetic shell whereas they are chemical (HEAT).

kinetic ammunition does more damage on penetration and has far superior ballistics (muzzle velocity). I mean, the M-51 Degem Bet (ingame called M-51) gets the same HEATFS as the AMX-30, but it is widely considered a mid vehicle mostly due to the abysmal damage of the HEAT it shoots. M300 would be way more consistent damage wise.

3 Likes
56

And where does it say that Chile never operated HE? Naturally, if Chile bought the HVMS cannons, it had to acquire all their respective ammunition, this being the APFSDS and the HE since the latter are essential for any tank to destroy other types of targets in addition to tanks, in the book "The Sherman in the Chilean Army " the 2 types of ammunition appear

2 Likes
57

Not gonna lie if we going with the military history reasoning to add Chile to israel then i think (at least in my opinion) Singapore should be a better fit. Let me give you some history.
Singapore’s first prime minister Lee Kuan Yew often made remarks on Singapore’s supposed precarious position surrounding its Muslim neighbours like Malaysia and Indonesia as an “Israel in a Malay-Muslim sea”.
To protect the newly independent nation from external threats, the Singaporean government decided to model its armed forces, the Singapore Armed Forces (SAF), including its conscription system, after the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). From 1966, Israeli military advisers were brought in to assist in setting up and training the Singaporean military. Israel also supplied Singapore with military hardware including tanks and missiles. Over the years, Israel has continued to advise Singapore on an array of military topics, ranging from night operations to aviation psychology. The defence and intelligence establishments of both countries conduct routine exchanges of information, and a small number of IDF officers serve in staff appointments within the Singapore Ministry of Defence (MINDEF). Today, the two countries operate many of the same weapon platforms, including early warning aircraft, anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, aircraft and surveillance technologies.

Conclusion i rather Chile to be in a Latin America tech tree since that tech tree is not as op as a asean tech tree lol but i can definitely see in the near future since it popular and will attach south American players once gajin as add each nation a sub tech tree

1 Like
58

And what low-ranking tanks or those related to Israel does Singapore have?

59

Much lesser extent, but with how little the Hungarian industry is connected to the Italian it matters fairly little I think.
Much the same regarding Finland and Sweden.

60

and does it have tanks for low ranges? Singapore is a relatively new country.