I’m not saying they should be made equal; I’m saying that, for example, the M60A1RISE Passive and the M60A3TTS should be given the bullet they historically used (M833) and have their BR increased by one point (to 9.0 and 9.3), while at the same time reducing the BR gaps in other countries by adding other tanks to fill those gaps. In any case, increasing the BR of the M60s wouldn’t make them vulnerable to the Leopard 2A4, since with the bullet change it would be reasonable to raise them to BR 9.3, while the Leopard 2A4 is 10.7.
Keep in mind that all these tanks that don’t use their historical bullets should only have their BR increased by 0.3 overall, so it wouldn’t be very different from their current BR values, while improving their ability to fight when in a match with an unfavorable BR, preventing them from becoming free points for the enemy (although That’s surely what the developers are looking for.
I guess i lost the track. While i agree we need to move some tanks away, i dont think we need to give them anything, we just need to move them AND everyone else by a point. I dont think that at 9.0 the M60 Rise needs better ammunition, same as TTS, if every other tank is moved up by a point.
I prefer tanks to use the bullets they historically used, even if it means slightly increasing their Battle Rating (BR). For example, I prefer the M60A1RISE Passive with a BR of 9.0 using the M833, rather than the BR of 8.7 using the M750, which also lacks proper penetration. This has been reported but not fixed.
It must be acknowledged that NATO tanks from the 1960s to almost the 1980s were essentially glass guns, as they lacked sufficient armor. They compensated for this with mobility, modern targeting systems, and powerful ammunition. In the game, the targeting systems are useless (only the laser is functional), and the tanks don’t use the correct ammunition.
And i would rather prefer them to have at least some protection with a worse shot, as they not only would be glass, but also an immovable glass. Late M60s lack of mobility makes them not suitable for glass cannons
it does not?
It uses M735. And they recently (well 3y ago) reworked it penetration
Yes, but then the US went the other way. they lack mobility and tried to have some armor. Other tanks - Leopard 1, OF-40, AMX-30 - do in fact follow the “glass cannon” route
The M60A1 doesn’t really have such bad armor.
My mistake, I didn’t remember the name of that bullet, and yes, three years ago they changed the penetration because they accepted an erroneous report, so they should review the penetration again.
It sure does as its penetrated with troubles only by lower tiers AND early USSR shots. Make it 9.0, it meets T-62M1 that gets it easilly. And then can get to 10.0s with - idk, DM63s.
Its up to them to decide then. They never say which docs they see as truthful before making a change.
But it would carry a bullet that would make it much easier to kill even a T-72A with a single shot.
Apparently, that correction was made because they confused the size and speed of the M735 with the XM735. Apparently, the prototype bullet differed from the production model.
Which is unnecessary due to M774 and M735 being able to do that just fine WHEN it meets T-72. And giving it pretty decent chances of NOT TO meet it. While being frced to fight it each battle otherwise.
Im was not into that discussion so im not sure why. But that is still up to gjn to decide when to change it again
M774 yes, M735 is harder since you can no longer rely on UFP shots.
I mean, you could just give M833 to the American TTS.
Its firepower would still be worse than DM33 found on the Taiwanese / Thai TTS but the American one gets ERA.
Though, it’s not like it really needs it.
so you most likely shouldnt?
t-72 only has so much armor in front to deplete those.
Yes, but that just means the T-72As are harder to penetrate and kill with M735.
Not sure what you’re trying to say here.
Armour in War Thunder doesn’t get more brittle the more you shoot at it.
that T-72 only prides on frontal armor , so its not good to make everyone penetrate it easilly
That’s true, and is why the Rise (P) is at 8.7 with M735.
That’s more of a personal opinion. Just as you might find it unnecessary, I would welcome it for historical reasons.
This change would simply mean that in matches where you have the lowest Battle Rating (BR), it wouldn’t be such a disadvantage.
Another thing that could be done is to make the ammunition change without changing the BR of those tanks. Instead, the lower BRs would be further separated to avoid pitting them against BR 8.0 tanks, etc., which also suffer from a certain disadvantage when facing BR 8.7 to 9.0 tanks.
Anyway, as I said, these are just different personal opinions that don’t make a big difference to gameplay or significantly affect balance. It’s just that, for me, I prefer tanks to use their historical ammunition. I wouldn’t like to see the T-90M firing the 3BM9 at BR 10.0 just because it could fire that type of ammunition.
It must be funny the reasons why the devs decide to give certain bullets to some tanks and not others. I honestly would give the tanks the bullets they should have used historically, and then balance them properly. But hey, the devs know what they’re doing with their game; I can only offer my opinion, but the decision is theirs, even if they often make mistakes.
Well, I wouldn’t be opposed to that, but I get why they may hold back certain ammo in order to make a tank reasonably well-rounded.
This is especially the case for planes at the moment.
Maybe certain munitions / ammo can come later on after certain MAX BR increases and mechanics happen. (Good example would be the F-16 ADFs only now receiving AIM-120s.)
You could put the Rise (P) at 9.0 with M833, but it would just be an inferior TTS.
Why would anyone want to play that?
They could have done something simple, just as they put the Shot Kal Gimel in the tech tree and the Shot Kal Dalet in premium, they could have done the same with the M60A3TTS, even more so knowing that that tank with ERA was only a prototype, the M60A3TTS in service never carried ERA.
They could also give the M60A3TTS the M900. Supposedly even the M60A1 RISE tanks from the Gulf War could fire them, but to differentiate between those two tanks, they could leave only the M833 for the RISE.
That goes to my first point:
Currently, the mobility of TTS at 9.0 is okay (not good, not great, but on par with things like the T-55s and of other modified M60s / Centurions), with usable armour (albeit only in down tiers), and a good round.
If it were to get M900 (and maybe a reload buff to 6.0s), it would probably be 9.7, its mobility would be considerably worse than its 9.7 counterparts, and its armour would effectively be useless – even in full downtiers. Sure, it can effectively penetrate anything (even in a full uptier), but it would just be a one-trick pony.
I’m not sure about you, but a TTS with M774 at 9.0 sounds a lot more fun than a TTS with M900 at 9.7