Yes, basically at some point gaijin changed the stage one ammo rack from the turret bustle to the hull floor drastically increasing the base reload and restock rate.
He is talking about in game. Not historically.
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Historically, yes, it would have fought Shermans, and if it saw service in the state it is in-game in real life, it would have been quite the menace to them. But this post isn’t about history, as others may have already noted. This is about it being at a BR where it can fight things that it cannot hurt, on the regular (because fml, I live in stereotypical Wehraboo territory and so 5.7 sees 60% full uptier rate) and how that seems unfair to the vehicle on the grounds that it doesn’t have any of the more effective gap-bridging capabilities at the for 5.7 vehicles fighting 6.7 vehicles, like a stabilizer, better mobility, smaller size, angled armor, APCR or the like.
In short, on the principle that the Chi-Ri is basically an autoloaded Panzer 4, should it be fighting Ferdinands, SU-122-54s or USA T-34s at all? In all likelihood, it’s not a 5.7 worthy vehicle, even if the buff makes it a lot less gimmicky/more viable.
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Eeeehhh…
I don’t want to break your mood, but I don’t think so…
It wouldn’t have fought Shermans anyway
Because, as a joke, US Mains of IRL just CAS everything.
Carpet bombing from B-29 or Close Air Support by Corsairs or Bearcats…
I think it wouldn’t going to have a chance to fire a gun…
Well, about WT, maybe it is borderlining 5.7, maybe?
Not good enough to stay 5.7 but not bad enough to buff down to 5.0.
The Panzer 4 has an inferior round, inferior mobility, inferior reload…
On top of potentially being under-BR’d.
Chi Ri’s mobility, reload, and round is what protects it.
@QTip_44
The Chi To Late is slightly less mobile getting to 30kph 2 seconds slower than Chi Ri, and Chi Ri having a 50% faster reverse speed.
Chi Ri also has a 2.3 second faster reload, which has caused further increases in BRs elsewhere.
None of these are my opinions.
You know what my opinion is in all this? I find it being 5.7 fine.
The reason for this opinion is the fact Chi Ri will never have a non-5.7 lineup because of its mobility, its round, and its reload.
If you succeeded in getting it to 5.3, it’s still in the 5.7 lineup.
It can’t be 5.0 again, it’s been buffed and its equivalents mostly sit at 5.7 to begin with, with maybe a few at 5.3.
CAS was always it’s own thing. In real life and in War Thunder, it’s there, though I do see the writing on the wall more than the Japanese did by the time they were losing the war: hindsight is 20/20, it wouldn’t have made a difference since there was a distinct lack of air superiority on Japan’s side. (shakes fist) Curse you, Imperial Japanese Navy.
Chi-To’s, Nu Ii, and Ri II were always 4.3 originally, unless you’re referring to before 2017.
I won’t argue the facts are the facts. And the facts are that the Chi-Ri’s contemporaries have more consistency: T-34-85: faster, so it’s inferior rounds can get to the weaker sides of it’s enemies and make use of the higher explosive mass to more lethal effect. And it’s a capped round, so it performs against angles slightly better, and so it can flank even less to get the same results: it’s round killing the enemy sooner and from safer positions than the Chi-Ri can It gets APCR, situational as that is. The Sherman 76: stabilizers make getting into fights faster, especially if both participants are moving. There’s also the .50 cal, which can help to ward off air and keep the main gun up and ready when shooting tracks, keeping the Sherman from being helpless from most directions (compared to the hull-mounted 37 of the Chi-Ri being as situational as not being hull-down and exposed), smoke shells, and APCR so it’s not a sitting duck despite being slower than the Chi-Ri. The Panther: way better pen and armor, faster, smoke grenades, neutral steer. It’s 5.3, or 6.0.
The facts are, you can be fine with it at 5.7. You can have that opinion, if you feel fine like that, by all means, be my guest. But the Chi-Ri’s contemporaries all have something over it the reload can’t account for, something I feel the Chi-Ri would want (but can’t have because of the strong notions of historical accuracy in War Thunder, and thus the lack of proof it had those things) if it were going to stay 5.7.
I want to fight guys who are aware of me sometimes, it’s more… Interactive and fun-feeling that way. An aware USA T-34, of course, does not lose to a Chi-Ri. And of course, you can always rely on your team… To kill the guy who just killed you during or after your kill cam.
So let’s shake on it.
You can have Chi-Ri at 5.7 whenever you feel like, I would really like it to be 5.3, so I don’t have to spend half the match cowering because something I can’t hurt unless he was already unaware is staring me down while his allies smack around the rest of my team until someone else comes along and either kills me or draws my attention from the thing I can’t kill, forces me out of cover or whatever else may come/so I can feel like I’m not a pebble in front of a steamroller.
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The Chi-Tos are both 4.7, the Chi-Ri is 5.7, the only one left of the lot at 4.3 is the Chi-Nu II. The Chi-Nu II, of course, sits 1.0 above the Chi-Nu and is essentially what the Sherman 76 is to the Sherman 75, better gun, same armor. But it’s that low because, well… You can .50 cal the Chi-Nu II from anywhere but the front. And since a lot of vehicles can pen 50mm and even the 20~25 the Chi-Nu II’s sides are… Even the Chi-Nu II may be overtiered.
Should have stayed at 5.0 tbh. Maybe 5.3. Definitely not 5.7 though.
It was mediocre to bad before the reload change but if they had just kept it at 5.0 it would’ve been viable. Though still not great because of its abysmal mobility, large size, and no useable armour.
The Delat Torn was better but with the change it would’ve been fairly equal. Worse mobility, larger profile, slightly worse turret rotation speed and short-term reload but much better long-term reload and better reverse speed.
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Chi Nu II should be 4.0 to be fair
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That would’ve penned regardless.
The point being is that you can more easily pen the angled side armour of things (such as the Panther):
and the T-34-85’s round has much better TNT equivalent so needing a second shot on a dude isn’t as common.
T-34-85 and M4A3 Shermans are much more versatile than what the Chi-Ri offers.
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I don’t really get the people who say Delat Torn > Chi-Ri. Even before the change they were always close to equal (depending on whether or not my luck favored Japan or Sweden). The Delat Torn can be .50 cal’d, I’m fairly sure you can HE it through the gap the gun is in from the front, and if not the back is literally open, exposing 3 of the 4 crew. But the tradeoffs were more fast shots, better turret rotation and better acceleration anywhere but up hills. Now the Chi-Ri is better, no question, the larger ready rack means it doesn’t have to hide for as long when threatened and can still just as quickly pop back out, because it can spend more time firing instead of replenishing, and it has one more dude to help it live being shot.
As for your note on the Chi-Nu II… Comparing it to the Panzer 4 F2, it’s clear who’s too high: the Panzer 4 F2 is basically the same, but has better side and rear armor, smoke grenades, smoke shells, APCR, HEAT, better mobility, and the better reload.
What’s up with that, I wonder.
The acceleration, top speed, and small profile generally makes up for the fact that the Delat can be HE’d (though the person needs to be aware of its presence before doing so). It cannot get 50. Cal’d unless you shoot its hull side armour or rear.
It 100% was better than the Chi-Ri, but the extended first stage at the cost of a worse reload (though 4.5s is still great) is worth it to be honest with you. Chi-Ri could be fine at 5.3 but 5.7 is pushing it.
Quite literally the only benefit is the 100g tnt equivalent instead of just the 29g for the Panzer IV.
I guess the acceleration is slightly better but nothing notable.
Same mobility other than that (top speed, reverse speed), same gun depression and similar turret rotation speeds. And it has a 6.5s reload instead of a 5.9s reload, and has worse side armour.
The ability to one-shot more frequently is nice but at the cost of a 0.7 BR increase and longer reload is definitely not worth it.
I think it should be 4.0 but it could well as be 3.7.
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Yeah because guns and firepower is all that matters right?
How about armor worse than a T-34-85 with also worse mobility and turret traverse?
How is that supposed to be competitive at 5.7.
It’s basically a slower M4A1 76 with faster RoF.
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Unstabilized, worse turret rotation speed, and no 50.cal too.
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I guess 4.5s reload and a better 37mm round is good enough for it to jump .7 br
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Yesterday I tested the Chi-Ri and managed to achieve 3 kills per battle. However, these kills were from ambushes or flanking attacks.
However, there’s a problem. Gajin has made the Chi-Ri uncompetitive in the Japanese tech tree. The M4 is more versatile, and the M36 is a much better sniper tank. The Chi-Ri’s only advantage is the power of the godlike Emperor Hirohito, but it has a long recharge time and won’t always be useful.
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The hull and turret of the DT, on sides and rear, is 30mm, same as the Panzer 4. Which… Can be .50 cal’d in the side. You can definitely .50 cal the DT. Just… Only from ramming distance since .50s pen 31mm.
I mentioned the Panzer 4 F2 (3.3) specifically because the Panzers at 3.7 (H and J) have 80mm hull fronts, their only other benefit over the Chi-Nu II. The Panzers at 3.3 (F2 and G) also lack around 7mm pen that the 3.7 Panzers have, so yes, the Chi-Nu II could be 3.7 and be essentially on par with the Panzers. The Chi-Tos would, as a result, probably be 4.3, since by 4.0 most nations are .50 cal-proofing their mediums, for example, the Hungarian Turan III, but some… Some forgot to, like the British Avenger with it’s 28mm hull sides.
But yeah. Can’t argue with a smaller profile. Would be great if Gaijin could be convinced to make these changes, but… Gaijin be Gaijin, it took them since the Chi-Ri was added along with the Japanese tech tree 9 years ago (some 3 or 4 years before I discovered War Thunder) to change the ready rack to a more correct state. Chances are, this won’t even be a footnote to them…
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Keep in mind you must be completely side-on. Any angling and it would basically be immune.
This is such a non-issue for the Delat Torn. 😅
Fair enough though again, 28mm side armour still doesn’t make it feasible to 50.cal it in most cases. Though it does allow 20mms+ and 14.5mm guns (SPAAs) to shred it given the opportunity.
Yeah.
The reload speed increase is a nerf.
Yes, not being crippled by the glaicially slow restocking of the rounds is nice (They could have just reduced that to something reasonable and that would have been it), but the rapid fire gun was the singular advantage of the Chi-Ri at the tier. The ability to rattle off 3 APHE nukes in quick sucession mean it could exploit good positioning very comfortably.
Sure, going from 3.3 → 4.5 doesn’t sound like a lot, and you still outreload everything you’ll be seeing. But, to put it another way, it’s a 50% increase in reload time. And for all those occasions where you aren’t just trying to match an opponent shot for shot, it really hurts. With the old Chi-Ri, and some good positioning, you could catch out and kill 3 enemies before they have a chance to react, since from first shot to last is only 6.6 seconds. Now it’s 9, meaning a wide variety of guns will be reloaded in that time.
As a point of reference, the reload is now just barely faster than the US 75mm and the 17 pounder on the Challenger (5 seconds), and a little faster than the US 76/17 pounder (5.9).
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