Chi-Ri should NOT be BR 5.7

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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Imagine you are playing a King Tiger… But with the gun and armor of a Panzer 4, and an autoloader.

You are, in fact, imagining playing the Chi-Ri. A tank now at 5.7 and capable of fighting vehicles other than the M4A3E2 which are immune to it’s gun frontally. All because it has an autoloader (which loads slower if the loader himself is injured or dead) with a capacity of 18 rounds.

This BR change NEEDS to be reverted, or at least softened to 5.3, if the Chi-Ri, an overtiered but comfortably managable vehicle at 5.0, is to remain worth playing.

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Honestly, played the Chi-Ri a bit and its really hit or miss. If you are in a 6.7 match and on a long range map might as well leave the game but when its a 5.7 match or even 6.3 and a short range map I didn’t have many problems with it. Quite the contrary, had multiple 6+ kills game with it

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It’s a 4.7 vehicle at 5.7, it’s uptiered by default as a response to a reload nerf.

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If the T-34-85 can be 5.7 with a similar performing round and significantly worse reload, then Chi Ri is fine at 5.7.

As @maxidaxy_ネコ said, it’s doing fine right now.
I intend to play it again myself now that it’s reload is actually good.

The reason why it was 5.0 to begin with was because Chi Ri’s reload after 3 rounds was awful.

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now that it’s reload is actually good.

It literally got nerfed and only becomes useful if you somehow fail to kill something in 3 shots, also pushing it’s reload time beyond the average reload time which means you are a whole lot less likely to actually get to a 4th shot.

Although you might actually need that extra shot considering you’re now playing against 6.7s.

If only this game had a system that balanced vehicles on performance and statistics instead of uptiering vehicles based on vibes.

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Massive nerf to reload and 0.7 uptier… but you get a better 37mm shell…
I dunno why it needed an up tier just because of the ready rack size increase, you had 3 fast shots, if the enemy was alive at that point you where dead anyway, and if they where not you replenished the ready rack. increasing the ready rack and decreasing the reload was a side grade… not a 2 BR step buff.

yeah, but T-34-85 has significantly better turret armour, equivalent hull armour… but actually better because you can angle it unlike the Chi-Ri that has flat spots that prevent that. And the T-34 its both a much smaller target and a more maneuverable.

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If you exclude the literal impossibility to face head-on vehicles like T34 heavy tank and Tiger II even in advantage of positioning and first shot, this was a buff, fact being you’re not handicapped after the first three shots is a good change, with the reload being able to be reduced to 4.5-seconds Ace and 5.2-seconds Expert is incredible and good trade for armor, which Chi-Ri still retains good mobility for its size.

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You weren’t handicapped after the first 3 shots, you just needed to reload… the problem was the arbitrarily long reload Gaijin sets for this things with extensive timers that also take seconds to even initiate.

Either way it was just a trait of the vehicle you had to play around instead of it becomes a generic crap mobile with slightly above average reload, no different than a TD without a turret or a vehicle without depression, if played right a 3.3s was insane.

The big part is that a 3.3s allows you to shoot three times in 6.6s , which is below the very common reload speed of around 7 seconds… now that is 9 seconds which is way above that you won’t get that third shot off in any 50/50.

There will be way more scenarios where the increased reload times are going to get you killed than you will need to shoot half a dozen rounds in quick succession without a break will help you.

Even being optimistic it’s a side grade at best.

It does nothing to justify a BR increase without consideration of statistics… the thing THE ENTIRE GAME IS BASED UPON and they decide to just ignore statistics and uptier a vehicle based on vibes.

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The reload got a huge buff, it wasn’t nerfed.

Also why are you aiming for a 1:1 KDR in the Chi Ri?
Chi Ri is currently balanced.

It’s a T-34-85 with less hull & breach armor and a significantly faster reload for 19 rounds.

So unless you think T-34-85 is a 4.7 [or 5.0 if you want me to compromise with you] tank as well, I’m calling out your double standards.

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Going from 3.3 to 4.5 is not a buff.

The T-34-85 has typical T-34 sloped troll armor, double the turret rotation and magical APHEBC slope modifier that push it’s penetration to beyond that of a Tigers 88mm whilst also not being the size of a barn with flat angles and an insanely cramped crew.

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@Miragen
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It was an objective reload buff.
Note 6.45 seconds ace crew is 8.5 seconds stock.

Correction, the T-34-85 has a slightly inferior round.

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The Chi Ri having the “magical APHEBC slope modifier” isn’t as notable as you claim.
Honorable mention to the T95 that got absolutely hammered by APHE:
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The Chi-Ri never had a 8.5s stock reload, it had an ace reload of 3.3s, I don’t know who is telling you it was 8 seconds.

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It used to be 4.7 was great. 5.0 was where it was fine. 5.3 and 5.7 were pushing it.

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It has a 4.5s reload, clearly it is as good as the Type 90 :clueless:

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Aye. The Chi-Ri in 5.7, 6.0 and 6.3 matches, it’s fine, because for the most part, it’s fighting tanks it used to fight. It already handled them. I’ll not be the last to admit, the Chi-Ri would need a few other things to be a better tank, but that’s just fine.

With this loader-assist buff, it actually feels like a 5.3 tank: look no further than the French M4A1 (FL10), with it’s FULL-ON autoloader, guaranteed to fire once every 5 seconds, allowing it to fire 13 times before needing to replenish. If I recall from test-driving it once, you did have to stay hidden until the rack had a round in it, then it would reload the gun, like most full-on autoloaders, and that has smoke grenades, so it can give itself cover to move in or distract foes.

If it were me, the Chi-Ri would be rough but manageable at 5.7 if it got, say, the Type 90 Smoke Shell and the Na-To’s Type APCR, then the autoloader would give it a one over the Sherman 76 like the Sherman 76 has the stabilizer over the Chi-Ri, but given the lack of these rounds on other vehicles armed with basically the same cannon, the Chi-Nu II and Chi-Tos, the Chi-Ri as latest of the bunch wouldn’t either…

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You are ignoring the loading trays. The reload was 6.5 seconds aced the same as the Chi-To’s, but you had 2 rounds on the loading tray that gave you 2 3.3 sec reloads before you reverted to your normal reload rate, loading from 1st stage straight into the gun. Once you stopped firing the loader would restock the loading tray. Basically identical as to how the PZH-2000 currently functions with 2 ready rounds with 5 sec re-load then the rest are 7.5 until the loading tray is re-stocked.

With that in mind changing it from, 3.3 seconds to 4.5 seconds is a nerf or at absolute best a side-grade with the 1st stage increase. having a larger ready rack for a slower reload could be argued as a buff for a close in brawler that might have to engage multiple enemies, but the Chi-Ri isn’t a front line tank, unless you like being flanked and side penned buy a duster. Having 3 quick shots then a 6.5 sec reload or backing up to re-stock the ready rack was not an issue for the Chi-Ri.
It is also illogical that the ammo now teleports from the 1st stage storage to the loading trays.

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You make plenty of good points on the matters of the T-34-85…

It’s smaller, faster, more prone to volumetric nonsense, and has an APCR, that because APCR is in poor condition, isn’t all that useful, but better to have it and not need it than need it but not have it.

Volumetric is a big part of the T-34’s survivability, it’s why I take care when shooting them and Panthers, the volumetric stuff can eat even well-aimed shots, even those with fairly high pen like the Type 4 Kou. But the Chi-Ri could always handle T-34s and Panthers, it has always faced them, their weaknesses are normal, and targetable weaknesses without having to squint at them funny to see them: If the T-34-85 slips up, the Chi-Ri can punch his UFP and he’s done (though most anything can do that to a Chi-Ri, it can’t angle), or the Panther’s cupola or the mantlet on either side of the gun.

The Chi-Ri does not lack these weaknesses, it’s just that you don’t need to exploit it’s weaknesses: it is a giant weakness with no way to cover itself other than with hard cover.

In short, a gun’s performance alone does not dictate the tank’s performance. The size, shape, mobility and gun together do. That’s why…

Let’s compare some different, similar vehicles: Panzer 4 J, and Chi-To.
The Panzer 4 and Chi-To have comparable mobility, reload speed, armor and firepower.
The Panzer 4 is the smaller and slower of the two, has less explosive mass to it’s explosive rounds, and the slower turret traverse… But it has HEAT, APCR, Smoke Shells, and smoke grenades, as well as the better reload. It sits happily enough at 3.7.
The Chi-To is larger, has locked optics, and hull traverse issues due to it’s length… But has more explosive mass, turret traverse, better top speeds and is entirely .50 cal proof. The Chi-To is 4.7
Did you angle today? This isn’t the most serious factoid, but it’s still rather relevant on other vehicles…
The Panzer 4… Really can’t angle, but those frontal hull sides are steeply angled from the front, allowing it to angle.
The Chi-To has much the same issue, but the angle is significantly worse: the tank is simply too long to make that same situation work.

But enough of the comparison. On to some flawed arguments.
The Chi-Ri’s old reload of 3.3 seconds tripled once the loader-assist was empty, hence why it felt bad… Gaijin didn’t even do that part right. It should have had a 6.6 second reload, right next to the Chi-To’s. The new 4.5 second reload should, by that logic, should be 9 seconds after the emptying of the loader-assist. But Gaijin just made their screw-up a feature, and so the empty rack leaves it with a 13.5 second reload now, as made note of in one of your images. Luckily for Gaijin, this “new” feature makes sense, as the ready-rack is in the turret, and the rest of the ammo is in the hull. The Chi-Ri literally gets nothing but the loader-assist size buff as reason to it’s BR increase. One more crew member? In the turret, one APHE there does the same thing as it used to: kill them all and leave the Chi-Ri with 2 crew. A better APHE and a new HE to the 37mm? Niche before and now a bit more helpful in fights where you’re facing an AA with your hull and a tank to your side with your turret. Those don’t even warrant a BR change together, it’s all on the loader assist buff. Granted, the Chi-Ri couldn’t have stayed at 5.0 with this buff… But saying the Chi-Ri is on par with a Tiger 1 just doesn’t gel. Is a Panzer 4 on par with a Tiger 1? We both know the answer is a resounding no.

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It’s basically the exact same tank as a Chi-To-Late (BR 4.7) with two quick reloads (and a 37mm cannon which is less useful than the 37mm on the M6A1). And IMO Ch-To-Late should really be 4.3.

Not sure a full BR uptier is worth that, as it will face enemies with much heavier armor than 4.7 vehicles do. 3 quick shots that won’t pen are hardly better than 1 shot that won’t pen.

Comparing it to T-34 85 is a stretch as the Ch-Ri bounces hardly any shots, and aside from it’s top speed, the Ch-Ri is very sluggish. T-34 also gets APCR, which can make the difference in SOME situations.

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You realize the Chi-RI II never saw combat service, right? What it would have mostly fought were Sherman 75mm M4s and the rare 76mm, as those were just too heavy for the Pacific.

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How is this relevant?

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