Same or better. No hard confirmation Pl-8B or TY-90 using a dual color seeker, only multi-element with DSP. Pl-5EII confirmed dual color multi-element with DSP.
Gonna have to bug report it AGAIN this weekend, even though I included this information in the report about the missing IRCCM that’s ‘fixed’…
They all share the same seeker, someone has used photo evidence where they have the same seeker labelled on them apparently.
Only photo evidence of the seeker is the Pl-9C in one of the Chinese military books I have. Alternatively the Zhuhai airshow had these missiles all (except for Pl-8B) on display. The sides of the missiles had a brief description saying something like “multi-element seeker”, the Pl-9C specifically included a statement about IRCCM and an onboard computer. The Pl-5EII only stated “multi-element seeker” but on AVIC website it says dual color multi-element seeker with on board computer. Neither the Pl-9C or TY-90 on AVIC website says dual color unless I missed it in the translation.
I think I saw somewhere that PL-9C has quad element seeker
Wait a second I’ll have a look.
edit: TY90 does mention it has what translates into ‘digital information processing’, which could mean compatible with HMD or it has a on board computer for IRCCM, although I don’t see why it can’t be used for both.
This is a picture of the seeker element. It is a multi-element seeker with DSP. The algorithms powering the DSP can be changed for whatever they think is best; the TY-90 has the same exact technology and the algorithm in that one is strengthened for filtering out very low altitude background noise that can effect seeker tracking. It does not mention dual color here. Personally I doubt the Pl-8B/Pl-9C/TY-90 have dual color, the Pl-5EII came out later than those, by the time the Pl-10 was already a thing. And the Pl-5EII is focused on exports, using dual color is advantageous making it much harder to flare and isn’t as costly as a digital IR tracker like the Pl-10. So there was no real need either to upgrade the Pl-8B’s to a digital IR seeker since they were happy with the Pl-10 performance.
Hey do you have the book? Cause I can’t find this on internet and I’m not in China.
Yes. A Chinese player had a copy of it and shared it to me. I can send you a DM with it.
Thx, the website is now closed and I have just sent him a message.
武器纵横：中国新型霹雳格斗导弹定型
new PL missile getting certified
2006年03月12日 10:03 军事文摘
以色列怪蛇为蓝本[虚幻天空]
started off with python
为尽快缩小与外国差距，1982年中国国防工业部门开始论证引进新型空空导弹。
in 1982, China decided to import new AAM
当年刚投入黎巴嫩空战的以色列怪蛇III50枚命中的优异战绩引起中方注意，斥资5亿美元向以色列拉斐尔公司采购1500枚怪蛇III导弹，并引进生产线，于1989年获得生产许可证，命名为PL-8，PL为霹雳的汉语拼音首字母。这种第三代空空导弹成为中国20世纪90年代至今空军近战的主力武器，与首期投资32.5亿人民币的十号工程(歼十)、5.5亿美元的八二工程(与美合作改良歼8B战斗机、涡扇九发动机生产线及研发飞豹战轰机)等，成为80年代国家四大重点军备工程。这些引进和合作对于加强解放军航空兵战斗力和借鉴西方标准化起了巨大的作用，其影响是远非引进俄制SU-27SK和SU- 30MKK战机所能取代的。
That year, Israel’s python3’s performance in Lebanon battle really caught the attention of Chinese. It paid 500 million to Rafale for 1500 Python 3 and including a production line. It got this in 1989. It called the missile PL-8. This becomes China’s main Short ranged AAM from 90s onward. Including the initial investment into J-10 project which cost 3.2 billion yuan and J-8II which cost 550 million dollar, they are China’s main air force programs in the 80s.
PL-8由西安东方机械厂大批生产，其生产线是全国工程化实力最强、质量最为可靠的。该生产线除了生产PL-8和PL-9空空导弹外，也承接其它军工产品。PL-8/怪蛇III的知名度也许稍逊于同代的美国AIM-9L响尾蛇导弹，然而除个别零件外，其整体性能并不逊色于后者。中国在20世纪90年代初曾从友好国家弄到一批AIM-9L，由于其接口与PL-8相同，可不经改装直接试射，结果表明最重要性能之一的不可逃逸区小于PL-8。这一点美国人比中国人更明白，2001年王伟座机被美军撞毁后，美军播出之前的录像，特别强调PL-8“严重威胁美军飞行员安全”，可见，美军的格斗导弹从性能而言并无优势
PL-8 started mass Production in a factory in Xian. This is China’s most reliable production line. Outside of PL-8 and PL-9 production, it also did other military products. PL-8 is slightly superior to AIM-9L. China got some AIM-9L from friendly countries in early 90s. Due to the same attachment, China can test fire these missiles without changes. The result is that the NEZ of AIM-9 is less than PL-8. Even Americans praised the quality of PL-8.
PL-8最小射程500米，最大射程15公里，最大使用高度20公里，最大速度2.5马赫，最大过载35g，导引头最大离轴发射角20度；引信采用发动雷达加触发式，作用距离7~10米；破片式弹头铸有2500颗钢珠，杀伤半径13米，重11公斤；全弹重120公斤，弹长3米，弹径157毫米，翼展 0.86米，是世界上出色的第三代红外格斗导弹。
PL-8’s minimum distance is 500m, maximum is 15KM, max altitude is 20KM and speed is mach2.5, load is 35g, seeker’s off boresight is 20 degrees. The seeker has 2500 (something), kill radius is 13 meters, weighs 11 kg, the entire missile weighs 120KM, 3 meter long, wing is 0.86 m
被军方称为八号弹的PL-8，以操作简单、维护简易、性能优异、可靠实用而获得好评。
20世纪90年代初在消化PL-8技术的基础上，中国空空导弹研究院推出了试验用的PL-8H护卫舰舰载型导弹，后来又研制出改良型导弹PL-8B。
After absorbing PL-8’s technology, China first tested PL-8H the shipborn version and then later developed the improved PL-8B
PL-8B与PL-8外形最大不同是寻标器头罩玻璃以非透明材料制作。1993年PL-8B定型靶试成功，翌年开始服役，目前在役的大部分是这种国产型。由于服役后没出过一次质量问题，空军对其质量可靠性非常满意，因此亦获得技术兵器罕见的免检待遇。
biggest difference bw PL-8B and PL-8 is the seeker
八号工程从以色列引进的不光是技术，更重要的是完整的当代先进生产流程和优良的质量管理体系，后者的影响远超出PL-8和导弹行业本身，它令中国军工产业潜移默化与西方接轨，其深层意义远超一般人所想像。
It’s not just the technology, but also the advanced production and quality system that has really impacted China’s military complexes.
抗电子干扰能力超群
ECM capability
作为国产第三代空空导弹的第一种产品，PL-9可视作PL-8的中国兄弟。PL-9是由中国空空导弹研究院已故大师董秉印任总设计师，1986年开始研制，1988年投产。
PL-9 is the brother of PL-8. Started development in 86 and finished in 88
在设计过程中空导院逐步吸收以色列技术，例如其寻标器基本沿用后者的氟致冷锑化铟探测器，弹身、弹径、弹长、弹重也几乎相同，使用高度和过载亦一样，只是尾翼和前舵有别。外形较接近AIM-9L和PL-5C，但弹体前后舱段设计则与法国的魔术I/PL-7相似，不过自动搜索截获能力、机动性及离轴发射能力、毁伤概率高于PL-7，单发命中率80%，与AIM-9L/M相当。PL-9有定轴(寻标器)扫描跟踪、定轴瞄准、雷达随动瞄准及头盔瞄准具跟踪四种方式。PL-9于1995年开始改进设计，1997年开始靶试。与改进前比较最大区别是把模拟信号升级为数字信号，主要表现在软件编程，要改变参数只需通过接口更换软件即可，红外线导引头也由单元式改为四单元。这样一改就等于导弹内部换了一代，全弹性能提升半代，新型号称为PL-9C。
PL-9 uses Israeli technology, the exterior is similar to AIM-9L and PL-5C, but the design is similar to PL-7/Magic. Performance is superior to PL-7, with a hit rate of 80%. This is similar to AIM-9L/M. PL-9’s improved version started design in 95 and started testing in 1997. The biggest improvement is the digital processing, software, the infrared seeker went from one to 4 parts, this is called PL-9C
PL-9C翼展0.81米，弹重123公斤，弹头重12公斤，导引头最大离轴发射角30度，采用激光近炸引信，最大速度2.5马赫，最大射程16公里，最大使用过载40g。
PL-9C’s off boresight is 30 degrees, max range is 16KM, load is 40g, speed is mach2.5, mass is 123 KG and warhead is 12KG.
身价近百万的PL-9C，使用时与PL-5E形成高低档搭配，其出色的抗干扰能力尤其值得称道。
It forms a hi-lo combination with PL-5E
首先，无线电引信换成激光近炸引信，提高了电子战条件下的命中率。在抗背景干扰方面，该弹能向贴地低飞的目标，包括巡航导弹作有效攻击，甚至可攻击在地面刚开始发动而未起飞的飞机。
弹体内增加了DMP芯片，是PL-8/PL-9难以比拟的，以前若敌机改变红外线干扰弹投放规律，中国军方必须更换硬件即弹上逻辑固态电路板才能有效抗衡，效率极低。PL-9C只要以地面检测设备通过接口，把根据红外线干扰弹新投放规律建立数学模型的新算法输入弹上电脑即可马上重上战场，故被空导院形象地称为柔性化、智慧化导弹。
根据一般常识，导弹性能提高1倍，战机综合作战效能提高4次方即16倍，若再配合头盔瞄准具或者改进雷达、火控系统，系统效能还能再提高2~4倍。即使落后的歼七、歼八战机，装备了该型导弹亦有能力在近战时击败F-15和F-16等强一代飞机，这对经费不足、整体空战效能改善长路漫漫的中国航空兵来说极具吸引力。
It simply talks about the improved performance of PL-9 here.
可与美军“毒刺”相匹敌
1999年3月，PL-9C样机抗干扰演示大获成功，军委决定将其从外销型纳入国家重点型号，命名为III型导弹，以区别于代号Ⅰ型的PL-8和Ⅱ型的PL-9。
The PL-9C’s ECM capability really did well in 99.
2001年秋，作适应性改良的国内版在西北靶场两枚试射失败，之后进行了5个月攻关共解决十多处隐患。期间董秉印总设计师因积劳成疾不幸英年早逝，由今年65岁的金先仲接任总设计师，年轻的梁晓庚则自1997年秋已担任副总设计师。
The improved deomstic version fire twice in 2001 and had setbacks.
2002年春，国内版PL-9C靶试成功，同年8月外销型定型，之后转入软件细部优化和零件质量稳定性改进。总设计师金先仲亦因长年有功于空空导弹研发，而荣获航空报国金奖。同年，还未定型的外销型少量出口巴基斯坦供空军测试，由于受美国军售禁运影响，操作介面与巴军AIM-9P相同但性能领先半代的 PL-9C自然受到F-16机师的欢迎。据了解，PL-9的小双三角形鸭式舵就是参考巴方提供的AIM-9P，但外形差别较大。至于PL-9C的激光近炸引信，则有参考AIM-9P和其它国家提供的AIM-9L两个说法,不过最后都没有完全照抄，而国内版改进同样采纳了巴军经验。
The domestic PL-9C succeeded in 2002, started to market for export in August of that year, the component quality and software improvements continued, It was given to PAF for some tests. PL-9C received the accolades of F-16 person in PAF.
经改进后的PL-9C成为中国第一款采用激光近炸引信和数字技术的智能化格斗弹,综合性能优于美军现役主力AIM-9M，抗干扰和迎头探测能力高于俄著名的R-37M2，该项目因此荣获国家科技进步一等奖。国内版的抗干扰能力因软件更完善而有更佳表现，另有消息指空导院预研多年的双色(红外线加紫外线) 导引头，已取代外销型的四单元红外导引头，令整体抗干扰能力更上一层楼，达到红外成像之前的点源红外导引头最高水平。目前世界上除了美国FIM- 92RNP“毒刺”地空/空空导弹外，还没有像PL-9C这种同时具备可编程序软件加双色导引头的正规空空导弹，相信这是空导院的自主知识产权军品。另外值得注意的是，PL-9C研制成功后，由于其导引头与PL-8具有互换性，能令后者性能大幅提升，这种升级版的型号就是目前主力的PL-8B。如果把国内版PL-9C的导引头模块用于PL-8B，性能会如何不难想像，由此可见，引进俄制R-73导弹根本无法取代国内西式导弹工业。
PL-9C after improvement became China’s first one to use digital technology and Laser proximity fuse’s intelligent missile. It’s combat capability is superior to AIM-9M. The ECM and seeker capability is superior to R-73M2. It uses dual color seeker? (red and purple?) Basically, PL-9C’s seeker was put on PL-8, which caused the improved performance on PL-8. PL-8B is this version with this and is the main AAM in pla. basically, it’s capability is superior to R-73.
pl5eii seems to have gatewidth irccm like magic/r73. shouldnt it have been tracking suspension like the aam3 in game or 9m?
As for AAM, Gaijin knows nothing about Chinese military, they can only copy and paste. They also don’t admit that there is such a model as PL-8B, thinking that we only have PL-8 in China.
It should have a modern combination of both, similar to the TY-90 which allows it to adapt and filter heat sources to avoid countermeasures but in game it’s a glorifed magic-2
Neither. Tracking suspension is the worst DSP algorithm there is. Aim-9M uses a single seeker element with DSP. Pl-5EII uses a dual color multi-element seeker with DSP. It should be better than Stingers and TY-90 in terms of flare resistance. The AAM-3 to my knowledge is a dual color single seeker element with DSP, so this missile is also underperforming unless Gaijin is considering our current flares as pyrophoric decoys.
Yea I know about its irl seeker head, but in game for balancing reasons the seekers have been simplified to only tracking suspension and gatewidth. What im asking is should the Pl5eii have gotten tracking suspension similar to the AAM-3 situation, or do you guys think its better with the magic 2s gatewidth FOV?
I dont have any blue planes with tracking suspension missiles so I can’t say for sure which one is better, but everyone says tracking suspension is more consistent. Thoughts?
I think it should have gotten tracking suspension. The PL-5 has great acceleration and can do some long-range shots (3-4km).
PL-9C for export other operators only ?
So when are we going to get correct pylons for the LS-6/PL-6 and GB500/250 bombs?
It’s very clear that the J-10A can mount them on the inner pylons, giving us a better ARH loadout while using bombs:
EDIT:
Also the broken neck targeting pod bug is kinda hilarious
Have you bug reported the j10’s ls-6 pylon thing
