One of the F-16As will, a C won’t.
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I’d like to remind you that Italy has 4 end-line jets that contend against (and are) the best fighters in the game, let alone an overglorified logistical attacker.
2 of these are capable of mixed air/air and air/ground loadouts, as well.
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Those have been in the game for what, a week? Two weeks? Are we going to let Ground Players get their entire Air tech tree unlocked for free?
No? Then give Italian ground an SPAA that will work at top tier.
Sure, what kind of SPAA are you suggesting for Italy then?
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I’d like to remind you that Italy has 4 end-line jets that contend against (and are) the best fighters in the game, let alone an overglorified logistical attacker.
Are you missing a processing unit upstairs or are you going to ignore what I said? My point was that Italy is in dire need of a new top tier SPAA system and yet you bring up the Italian Air TT. I own similar vehicles to all Italian end of the line Air RB vehicles and the only notable one would be the Gripen (which multiple nations already have).
So let me correct you and say only 1 is a actual contender
2 of these are capable of mixed air/air and air/ground loadouts, as well
Actually 3 if you include the Tornado IDS but you probably didn’t bother looking into it
If you want a nation to be enjoyable you should have a mixture of Air to Ground, Air to Air and Surface to Air capabilities and currently Italy lacks that Surface to Air capability. No sane person should be using the OTOMATIC or Sidam 25 (Mistral) against the SU-25SM3 and saying otherwise would be pretty ridiculous.
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Thats just Italy itself.
They lack proper vehicles for many occasions even so that Gaijin decided to add Hungarian Sub Tech Tree and they already recieved best plane in this game, they will also recieve Hungarian Leopard2A7HU and possible Leopard2A8 if Italy finalize the purchase.
İf you wanna look at most miserable aa system against Su-25 then you should look at Israel Tech tree, they have M163 with Stingers for god sake.
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Israel Tech tree, they have M163 with Stingers for god sake
I do agree Israel has it hard with the Machbet but at least they got the Chapparal, hopefully their SPAA line can slowly build up in the future.
Thats just Italy itself
More like just NATO, unlike Russia NATO doesn’t really prioritise mobile air defence systems.
But this is also why sub tech trees and other nation vehicles exist like the AMBT or ItO (France)
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France had alternative chasis that has Crotale systems, its just Gaijin bein lazy.
8 IR missiles, no gun, no ability to lead the missile, and sometimes lacking G-load. It’s such a pain, and there’s not even a single lineup for it to fit into…
Sometimes I feel like taking the machbet over this thing. At least the chap has thermals…
(Tbf at least it aint like Italy and their “top tier spaa hahaha)
2 were from 2.5 years, 1 was from 1 year, and obviously the new plane is new.
How does that make ant difference? Is their date of entry indicative of their performance?
Sure, I’m already halfway done with the JAS39…
Mistral SIDAM and OTOMATIC. If you don’t enjoy short-range SPAAGs, grab a plane.
You said that Italy only has 2 AA to counter the Su-25SM3, not the fact that it’s in “dire need of a new top tier SPAA”.
1 is an actual contender to the Su-25SM3? The AV-8B+ has the largest Paveway payload in the game, while the JAS39 gets the most advanced AGM-65 in the game…
Did you not read the words “end-line jets”?
And it has all of these. It gets the most capable SPAAG in-game, as well as an effective equivalent to the Gepard 1A2.
Then you have one of the strongest air trees in the game, GRB wise…
Again, counter the jet with a jet. If the entire point of the Su-25SM3 is standoff range to the point where no SPAA is able to counter it, then use something that is viable… AIM-9Ms and AIM-7Ms sound great…
Rate fights are irrelevant in a mouse-aim scene. There is no energy conservation in a fine-tuned turn, you simply W key to the enemy and rely on pure alpha to get a shot.
You said that Italy only has 2 AA to counter the Su-25SM3 , not the fact that it’s in “dire need of a new top tier SPAA”
You are completely illogical, when one refers to a major flaw in something you’d expect improvements and that’s what I was getting at. Italy has nothing on offer when it comes to competitive top tier SPAA.
JAS39 gets the most advanced AGM-65 in the game
That is something both the United States and United Kingdom have as well (the AGM-65G). This isn’t a thing only Italy has monopoly over and complaining about it is stupid.
AV -8B+ has the largest Paveway payload in the game
This better not be you comparing the Harrier II to the SU-25SM3 recently added, one requires a jet to fly high and fast which the platform of the vehicle isn’t capable of doing and the other has Kh-38s (not much has to be said).
Did you not read the words “end -line jets ”?
Soldier 5829 of the Russian Keyboard Battalion, have you also not read what I’ve said?
“If you include”
effective equivalent to the Gepard 1A2
Issue here is “equivalent” as this is the only system with Surface to Air missiles. Unless you want to spam left click then randomly explode to a orbiting F-16C or a far away SU-25SM3.
Rate fights are irrelevant in a mouse-aim scene. There is no energy conservation in a fine-tuned turn, you simply W key to the enemy and rely on pure alpha to get a shot.
Unless you are missing multiple fingers you should be able to tap W or hold W whilst tapping S.
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Doesn’t fix the issue, unless Gaijin decides to give all Italian ground players their entire air tree unlocked for free.
SPAAG are useless beyond max 10.7, at least in terms of range in comparison to the missile/bomb slingers they fight against (for short range stuff, they’re not too bad).
So, as with all things NATO, it falls into two categories: trailer-drawn and non-trailer drawn (this is what I could find somewhat easily, there might be more).
- Vehicle name - When vehicle could be added/where - Description of vehicle
Non-Trailer -
- iLauncher using CAMM-ER (might be ahistorical, unsure on launch vehicle) - BR 14.7? - 40-45km, ARH, 8 missiles (additionally, Gaijin could add an ahistorical CAMM version, which would be only 25km, so like BR 12.7-13.0?)
Trailer-Drawn -
Vehicle + Trailer, radar included -
- Spada using Aspide-1A’s - BR 11.7 - Pluto command post, trailer-drawn launcher, 15km maximum range, 6km maximum altitude, 4 missiles on each trailer, based on AIM-7 (closer to AIM-F in performance, though), it would need two trailers as both the command and launch platforms are trailers
Vehicle + Trailer, radar not included (assuming Gaijin adds stationary radars or AWACS to the game for fairness’ sake - not likely to happen, I know) -
- SAMP/T using Aster 15 (possibly ahistorical) - BR 13.0-14.0? - 30km max (missile) range, 3.0M, 8 missiles, Arabel radar, consists of a radar/command Astra 8x8 truck and a launcher Astra 8x8 truck (in-game we’d be driving the launcher I guess, unless we pull on truck behind another)
- SAMP/T using CAMM-ER - BR 14.7? - 40-45km, ARH, 8 missiles (additionally, Gaijin could add an ahistorical CAMM version, which would be only 25km, so like BR 12.7-13.0?)
Why do people always believe they can use SPAA to kill everything in the sky? Don’t they have any fighters? Su25m3 can’t do anything if there is a fighter, even you are a av8b+ or F5E, no BVR.
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If the issue is the Su-25SM3, as you guys are saying it is, then it absolutely does fix the issue… and more.
Then again, I’ve already answered this.
Then don’t use them for missile / bomb slingers? Most of those aircraft are easily capable of dodging any medium range SPAA as well, they can be invulnerable if they choose to.
The Chapparal is frankly garbage even with the MIM-72G, but thats really beside the point.
Italy has jack for actual usable AA as does Israel, they both need something, anything really, as their current options are not at all competitive.
Saying “just use a plane as AA” is completely irrelevant to the actual issue as SPAAG costs a fraction of the cost of a aircraft even with no A2G ordinance.
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Aster 30 can also be added to the list
since stand alone SPAA can’t get any better than what they currently are, depending on nations, fighters SP cost equipped with AAMs only needs to go down. And by “go down” i mean “low enough for a first spawn choice”.
F-16 with LGBs were a pain to deal with, but su25 can fire them outside of 12km and go cold or low, so no point in shooting even a vt-1.
only thing to do is intercepting the missile itself, but it gives no rewards, it sometimes does not appear on radar, and with a grand total of 8-12 missiles depending on the AA used, it means you run out pretty quickly.
Regarding the SU25 vs western CAS debate, i’d argue the range offered by KH38 compensates for the relatively poor dynamics of the SU25, however, considering the SPAAs available on both sides, it is undeniable than a m2k or f16 has to get in the danger zone of a pantsir while su25 can stay out of ITO’s or TOR’s range
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F-16 can also fire Mavericks outside of 12km and can go cold easily.
-Harrier can also do that, Gripen as Well.
-Mirage2000 can launch Nord missiles from 10km and can easily evade enemy sam system during entire time because of its insane targeting pod.
Aside from Germany and Israel all nations have long range AGM loadout that allows them to effectively and safely engage enemy Spaa’s from distance, this is not something special to Su-25 in that case.
I added the Aster 15 instead (which I’m pretty sure is ahistorical) because otherwise it would be so far off that I thought it wouldn’t really ever come to the game
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