Changes to the SP cost of CAS in GRB

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

and they are encountered in many various scenarios, some of them not requiring CAS to get rid of them in the first place.

And there’s many scenarios where CAS is needed.

@Beeschurger

That heavily depends on several factors that are almost always unique to the match at hand. Yes, sometimes the most effective way, but not the only way, to get rid of a good player in defending King Tiger. This feature will be kept by the new A2G ordnance SP cost system for ground battles which is the point of this thread.

Those unique factors are pretty common.

The main issue with the SP nerf is SPAA.

Take for example, an A-4E. You spawn in, you spot a Roland, you drop a walleye, he dies.

You think you’re clear to continue CAS duties, but then the Roland respawns with an Ozelot.

You drop a walleye, the ozelot goes boom, and now you’re out of guided bombs. No big deal, you still have short range options, e.g dumb bombs, rockets, or bullpups.

But low and behold, the ozelot player respawns into a Gepard 1A2, which means that again, you can’t use close range options, and now you’re out of long range options.

This has happened many times, and not just at 9.3. whilst Gajin is nerfing CAS so you can only have a single normal price spawn, SPAA is objectively easier to play whilst being extremely spammable even for players that don’t have a single kill.

It would be one thing if Gajin nerfed SPAA costs, along with CAS costs, however what they have planned right now is just a genuinely awful balance change.

@Beeschurger

I will allow myself to have a hot take here, I hate self-propeled howitzers in their current form.

I wouldn’t exactly call that a hot take.

[SHERMAN250]

sorry for that,but I was just go through the whole text,and I don‘t know that the topic has ended so I just reply him
by the way,I’m not a native speaker so my English is bad,hope you can get what I mean <3

[Herojure24]

@Pangolin_Fan

Take for example, an A-4E. You spawn in, you spot a Roland, you drop a walleye, he dies.

You think you’re clear to continue CAS duties, but then the Roland respawns with an Ozelot.

You drop a walleye, the ozelot goes boom, and now you’re out of guided bombs. No big deal, you still have short range options, e.g dumb bombs, rockets, or bullpups.

But low and behold, the ozelot player respawns into a Gepard 1A2, which means that again, you can’t use close range options, and now you’re out of long range options.

How often does it happen that a single player spawns 3 different SPAA?? I don’t think I have ever seen someone with thta many in the lineup though I admit I don’t pay much attention to that.

@Pangolin_Fan

SPAA is objectively easier to play whilst being extremely spammable even for players that don’t have a single kill.

Yes it is spammable but not easier in the slightest. You said yourself you just drop a walleye. Point and click while the SPAA has to actively try to shoot you down while you maneouver

[Herojure24]

No worries your english is fine. You should go check some other threads with chinese players. Those guys’ english is incomprehensible.

@SHERMAN250

sorry for that,but I was just go through the whole text,and I don‘t know that the topic has ended so I just reply him

No worries these threads usually devolve into the same arguments from older and closed threads. If you don’t have all of those read you might not know all the context. But no worries I just explained his argument as I am pretty sure that was what he meant.

unles @ULQ_LOVER says otherwise

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

And there’s many scenarios where CAS is needed

While it might be the most effective option, its not always needed.

@Pangolin_Fan

The main issue with the SP nerf is SPAA.

Take for example, an A-4E. You spawn in, you spot a Roland, you drop a walleye, he dies.

You think you’re clear to continue CAS duties, but then the Roland respawns with an Ozelot.

You drop a walleye, the ozelot goes boom, and now you’re out of guided bombs. No big deal, you still have short range options, e.g dumb bombs, rockets, or bullpups.

But low and behold, the ozelot player respawns into a Gepard 1A2, which means that again, you can’t use close range options, and now you’re out of long range options.

“I took out two enemy vehicles in the single CAS run and i cant take out third one”

What prevents you from landing back at airfield and rearming and engaging the Gepard with the same ordnance later?

@Pangolin_Fan

SPAA is objectively easier to play

As opposed to spamming spacebar few times outside of effective engagement range?

@Pangolin_Fan

whilst being extremely spammable

because it is completly sane thing to do, filling three different crew slots with SPAA.

@Pangolin_Fan

even for players that don’t have a single kill.

almost as if SPAAs are support vehicles in the first place.

They still require SP to spawn, and require a crew slot to have in the lineup in the first place.

@Pangolin_Fan

along with CAS costs, however what they have planned right now is just a genuinely awful balance change.

Its great change. It keeps the utility CAS provides, makes surviving the CAS run that much more important, prevents CAS spam and keeps the ability to spawn a CAP plane.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Herojure24

Yes it is spammable but not easier in the slightest.

No, SPAA, especially SAM SPAA is far easier than CAS in every way.

@Herojure24

You said yourself you just drop a walleye. Point and click

Wow, almost as if I couldn’t be bothered to write an entire step by step process on using the A-4E.

[Beeschurger]

@Herojure24

I don’t think I have ever seen someone with thta many in the lineup though I admit I don’t pay much attention to that.

I bring Gepard 1A2 + additional SPAA for any german lineup beyond 9.3 as none of the options offer both guns AND long range missiles, making them quite vulnerable on city maps and against low flying helicopter in some scenarios.

But three different AAs in single lineup sounds absolutely insane.

[Herojure24]

@Pangolin_Fan

No, SPAA, especially SAM SPAA is far easier than CAS in every way.

And how would you know that if I may ask since you have only played the chaparral?

@Pangolin_Fan

Wow, almost as if I couldn’t be bothered to write an entire step by step process on using the A-4E.

You don’t have tp. I know guided munitions are pretty much point and click. That is why it’s appropriate to increase their SP cost on second spawn.

[Herojure24]

@Beeschurger

bring Gepard 1A2 + additional SPAA for any german lineup beyond 9.3 as none of the options offer both guns AND long range missiles, making them quite vulnerable on city maps and against low flying helicopter in some scenarios.

I should probably start bringing out rhe amx 30 dca since I now have 8 slots.

@Beeschurger

But three different AAs in single lineup sounds absolutely insane.

Because it is insane. If you are free to play you get at most 5 slots and to use 60% of them on SPAA is mental.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Beeschurger

What prevents you from landing back at airfield and rearming and engaging the Gepard with the same ordnance later?

Time
It takes a long time to fly to the airfield and back, especially with an A-4E (plane with bad acceleration), carrying guided bombs which further slow you down, and also require both speed and altitude.

Not to mention, CAS haters want the AF moved even further back.

Regardless, SPAA being spammable for free is extremely bad for balance.

@Beeschurger

As opposed to spamming spacebar few times outside of effective engagement range?

Inside* effective engagement range of SPAA, outside your own effective range.

@Beeschurger

almost as if SPAAs are support vehicles in the first place.

They still require SP to spawn, and require a crew slot to have in the lineup in the first place.

What does that matter when you can still spawn a tank after dying 3x in SPAA without a single kill? SPAA might aswell be free at this point.

@Beeschurger

Its great change. It keeps the utility CAS provides, makes surviving the CAS run that much more important, prevents CAS spam and keeps the ability to spawn a CAP plane.

It’s an awful change by itself. It would be a decent change if SPAA received a similar nerf.

@Herojure24

You don’t have tp. I know guided munitions are pretty much point and click. That is why it’s appropriate to increase their SP cost on second spawn.

That makes 0 sense.

@Herojure24

And how would you know that if I may ask since you have only played the chaparral?

It’s the worst early SAM, and still overpowered.

Look at how much effort I put into these kills. SPAA is soooo hard.

@Herojure24

Because it is insane. If you are free to play you get at most 5 slots and to use 60% of them on SPAA is mental.

CAS haters are insane, so im not really surprised.

[SHERMAN250]

LOL how did you know that I’m Chinese

@Herojure24

How often does it happen that a single player spawns 3 different SPAA??

sometimes I take 3SPAAs in a battle(if you count BTR-80 as one) because I personally dislike(or even hate) D-25T cannon due to its age long reload and I didn"t research USSR TDs,so I bring BTR-80,ZSU-57-2 and M53/59 but without IS or TD,but I have to say I spawn them to kill tank and only shoot plane when they are trying to attack me,though maybe you can’t get lots of kill by playing this little trucks,it;s very interesting

[Beeschurger]

@Herojure24

I should probably start bringing out rhe amx 30 dca since I now have 8 slots.

Its definetively viable IF you have enough slots (which you said you have). My main reason for doing so, as I mentioned before, is the fact that things like Rolands, OSA, VT1s, hell even the mighty SLM have large deadzones are too unwieldy for me to use on city maps with limited lines of sight.

@Herojure24

amx 30 dca

Lmao, my condolences. Didnt france have that Leclerc with Gepard turret? Now it would be good time to add it.

[БЕИ]

@Pangolin_Fan

It takes a long time to fly to the airfield and back

Don’t fly back, J out and respawn in a tank instead and help the team secure the objective point bro

[Herojure24]

@Pangolin_Fan

It takes a long time to fly to the airfield and back, especially with an A-4E (plane with bad acceleration), carrying guided bombs which further slow you down, and also require both speed and altitude.

So you have all that time to think how much more inpact you would have in a tank.

@Pangolin_Fan

That makes 0 sense.

To you maybe.

@Pangolin_Fan

Look at how much effort I put into these kills. SPAA is soooo hard.

Cannot really see that well but looks like those planes were barely maneouvering so of course kills are easy. Try one of the manually guided SPAA with missiles. Immediately becomes more difficult.

@Pangolin_Fan

CAS haters are insane, so im not really surprise

Look if someone is that determined to bring out 3 spaa all power to them. But I would agree it’s probably appropriate to call them CAS haters if they go to this length.

[Herojure24]

@SHERMAN250

LOL how did you know that I’m Chinese

I had no idea . What I meant is to go check out some other threads where chinese players write the most gibberish and unreadable comments.

@SHERMAN250

so I bring BTR-80,ZSU-57-2 and M53/59

Those are an IFV(works against planes), a TD (good luck hitting planes) and an actual SPAA. For all intenta and purposes the ZSU is a TD.

[Beeschurger]

@Pangolin_Fan

Time
It takes a long time to fly to the airfield and back, especially with an A-4E (plane with bad acceleration), carrying guided bombs which further slow you down, and also require both speed and altitude.

Sounds great, CAS gameplay having such depth where one does need to consider pros and cons and prioritize targets to maximize the effectivness of a CAS run.

@Pangolin_Fan

Not to mention, CAS haters want the AF moved even further back.

This proposal is nowadays mostly mentioned in relation to the SLM, as to actually give top tier planes a safe spot to take off and rearm. I havent seen anyone mention it in relation to CAS below 11.0.

@Pangolin_Fan

SPAA being spammable

its not spammable.

@Pangolin_Fan

Inside* effective engagement range of SPAA

With A-4E and walleyes?

Rolands? Maybe but german one sits at higher BR, of course it will be effective counter to a CAS plane whole BR lower; and the french one doesnt get tracking radar on top of having limited elevation.

Stingers? Its 13G missile with limited maximum range. Its effective range is well below A-4E dropping walleyes.

Gepard? Its effective range caps at 1.5km.

@Pangolin_Fan

What does that matter when you can still spawn a tank after dying 3x in SPAA without a single kill?

If someone dies 3x times in SPAA without a single kill, chances are he doesnt have enough SP to spawn a tank.

@Pangolin_Fan

It’s an awful change by itself.

Nah, its great and I cant wait for it to go live.

@Pangolin_Fan

It’s the worst early SAM, and still overpowered.

Look at how much effort I put into these kills. SPAA is soooo hard.

Id advise you to keep on topic, we dont want this thread to turn into another thread where everyone glazes you and your stats.

[Herojure24]

@Beeschurger

My main reason for doing so, as I mentioned before, is the fact that things like Rolands, OSA, VT1s, hell even the mighty SLM have large deadzones are too unwieldy for me to use on city maps with limited lines of sight.

The french roland has even worse deadzones so I should spade it and then use the SANTAL nand the 30dca.

@Beeschurger

Lmao, my condolences. Didnt france have that Leclerc with Gepard turret? Now it would be good time to add it.

Yeah french spaa kinda suck. The SANTAL is okay and thw TPK is good. But there is like at least 5 other SPAA that could be added but gaijin just cannot let france have shit. Like the latest additions apart from the MSC were all copy paste.

[RunaDacino]

@Beeschurger

This proposal is nowadays mostly mentioned in relation to the SLM, as to actually give top tier planes a safe spot to take off and rearm. I havent seen anyone mention it in relation to CAS below 11.0.

I want it at prop tiers.

It’s absurd you can take off and be in threat range in less than 1 minute of flying EVEN WHILE CLIMBING (300 km/h IAS).

At rank 3/4, it should be so that in a mostly straight line, getting to battle field should take ~90 seconds WITHOUT climbing/shallow climbing at most (450 km/h) to make target prioritization meaningful and enforce careful approach rather than suicidal bombing.

This is also a buff to heavier attack aircraft like A26s and the like, making deciding between fighter-bomber with 1 bomb or dedicate strike plane with a lot of bombs but vulnerable to SPAA and CAP an actual decision with meaningful consequences.

No point spawning a B25 or B26 or A20 or A26 if a corsair does the job just fine.

Oh, and maybe it’d make flying CAP in GRB not-a-torture with its postmark sized maps (moving airfields back increases play area for CAP).

Also RTBing is still very fast. Dive, mess with MEC to maximize performance at cost of sustainability, hit 600 km/h in your 3.7 american plane and you’ve made 12 kilometres in ~72 seconds still. (my damaged to all hells P51C could maintain 586 km/h TAS over 32 km so… you got no excuses for being slow on the way home).

[Beeschurger]

@Herojure24

Like the latest additions apart from the MSC were all copy paste.

(cant be bothered to edit it so just imagine warmonger being Gaijin lmao)

[Herojure24]

Yeah bgl chasing an enemy plane 20 seconds off the battlefield just to get engaged by airfield aa is insane.