Uh huh. Because that’s surely what happened. (It’s not)
And a temporary mute, because I swore on how nonsense the odds are for SL crates. But sure, you know so much.
…
This is literally by definition a personal attack
Saying he’s mad (due to me proving him incorrect before) is now a personal attack? What has this world come to…
Because you and him are doing the same thing btw.
Stalking.
Is it that shocking you end up finding the same people on a forum sorted by latest first? Very “on topic” of you btw.
But let’s hear out how accusing people of stalking and calling others salty relevant to bomber survivability.
(fyi, you’re not even the most replied to user I have)
It’s just an odd coincidence you happen to be replying constantly to only my posts in a disingenuous way, claiming things that never happened and so on, all to defame me.
I’m not going to keep replying, you’ve derailed enough, lied plenty, and cannot be civil.
The goading is on another level with you.
People that throw accusations of stalking and calls others salty can’t claim civility. In the first place, it was you who made this conversation about yourself, with this grand conspiracy that forum users are out to get you?
If we are to lie, as least do one that isn’t debunked in 3 seconds.
btw you do know people can see you… editing posts into more personal attacks… right?
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Yes the new bomber models . First of all ı like the new bomber models better than paper bombers version . But ı need to say there is still need to do a balance patch because the bombers survive in airfield with AA even with no altitude . İn real bombers should die 20 rounds or 30 rounds with cannon but now 50 cal. is more powerful for shut down a bomber . War thunder a game for its realism ı always gonna say that . I think this update is a step for good bomber gameplay . I mainly play fighters or two engines but ı love bombers too . I think with next updates this will fix too but right now its more better than paper bomber models but still needs work .
New test I did.
I tested pilot kills against a B-17 from a 90-degree side attack.
The test was performed in a custom mission, with the B-17’s defensive guns disabled in order to focus on the aiming and firing window itself.
In practice, this was quite difficult. The video includes both successful and failed attempts.
The effective firing window is less than one second, and precise cockpit hits require very accurate timing and aim.
In an actual battle, the attacker would also have to deal with defensive fire and a maneuvering target, so successfully landing this kind of shot would require both skill and some luck.
Can you confirm or do you know what crew lvl the pilots have and if both pilots need to die of a AI plane? would be interesting to know
HI,
The B-17 in the mission is set to crewSkillK = 0 , skill = 1 , with AI skill set to NORMAL .
I haven’t specifically tested whether both pilots have to be knocked out on an AI-controlled B-17. In the successful clips I only confirmed the pilot kill result, not exactly which crew member was hit first.
That would actually be interesting to test separately.
Cause many bombers have 2 pilots, thats why i ask about it, not sure if AI bombers are the same in this regard. And crew lvl lvl 0/1 is 3x easier to kill, without looking i thing base is 100% and ace is 300%, also at ace crew dont die on a single 12.7mm (according to the info if i remember correct, but theres definitly a insane difference of playing with and without vitality skilled on a plane,. with crap crew the pilot dies regularly on shrapnels)
Good point. I hadn’t considered the crew level difference.
I may test that separately, but honestly, making a clean and repeatable test setup is the hardest part.
I checked the official War Thunder Wiki regarding pilot Vitality.
My test B-17 uses low AI crew settings (crewSkillK = 0 , `skill = 1), so I agree that this may make pilot sniping easier than against a highly trained player crew.
However, the official Wiki does not describe maximum Vitality as simply having 3x pilot HP. It says that a maxed-Vitality pilot can, “with a measure of luck, survive one hit from a .50 cal (12.7 mm) M2 Browning.” War Thunder Wiki
So crew level is definitely another variable worth considering, but multiple .50 cal hits into the cockpit should still be dangerous even with high Vitality.
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Ah, I see. So the 300% value is indeed shown in-game.
Interestingly, the description still says that even at maximum Vitality, a pilot can only “with a measure of luck” survive one .50 cal hit.
So crew level probably affects the success rate, but it doesn’t really change the main point of my test: reliably putting the burst into the cockpit during such a short firing window is the difficult part.
if u want we can go into custom match and check on a lowtier spaa or smt how many mg hits will kill an exposed tank mg gunner, i thing the hp of the people are the same in tank as plane.
Only difference is that tank crew can´t have more then 200%, but should still give an idea, or we test with a landed plane + tank/plane
Maybe when I have some time. 😄
It sounds useful, but these tests take quite a bit of time to set up properly.
Yeah - except that bombers like B-17’s were literally hit by larger rounds than that, and either made it back to base, or remained airborne several minutes while the crew took the time to bail out. A direct from an 88mm ripped the nose off of the B-17 ‘Mizpah’ and it flew another 10 minutes till the crew bailed out. Another from the 351st that you can find photo’s of took an 88mm (some say it might have been the bigger 128mm guns they had started employing) hit that blew a hole in it larger than the guy standing in it in the ground, ripped open a section of the side at one of the frame sections and caused a horizontal split further down, knocked out the superchargers on the engines - and it still made it back.
Bombers, like all aircraft and even zeppelins, have a skeleton. You hit an area where there’s no skeleton - all your doing is putting a hole in the covering, it’s a flesh would that might cause drag or reduce lift a little. You hit part of that skeleton - now you have potential issues depending on where it is and how much you actually damage. That 37mm hits the area just inboard of the middle of the wing - you might get lucky with a 1 shot just because that area carries a lot of stress on most aircraft and so much easier to snap, you hit the outer edge and take the tip of the wing off - it’s not gonna come crashing down, even hits to the main body are unlikely to be a one shot other than maybe some very specific areas, hit just right and even that is debatable given again - some of these planes came back taking hits from 88mm guns and the like.
There were exactly 2 ways historically to take out a bomber in 1 shot that wasn’t entirely luck based. The first was a head on attack that took out the pilot(s). The second was a hit that caused either the ordnance or the fuel tanks to instantly detonate.
Does the damage model need refining - maybe, I’m not sure that the issue is the damage model as much as something is wrong with cannon rounds, because I’m having more effect taking out bombers with .50 AP/AP-I/API-T than 20mm of the same type. But even if the issue is the DM and not the rounds - they should not be anything close to 1 shot, save maybe something like a Val that turned in to a flaming ball of death with a burst of .50 cal.
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Yep. And P-47s have been hit by 88mm flak and made it back to base. Obviously the P-47 should be made immune to air field flak.
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I think bombers (even 2 engine ones) having their engines burning for several minutes on one or both wings, without any critical damage to control cables, fuel tanks or wing structures is an issue with the DM, not ammo.