Changes to Bomber Survivability

[Rinhord]

Okay gotcha.

@UniqueScorpions-live

The fact their wings aren’t broken from 2 7.62mm hits now.
Or fire doesn’t instantly burn down bombers.

I think no one is arguingt against this, bomber needed a buff/change

@UniqueScorpions-live

I said, reduce the overall health by 10-15% for all components.

Nah i would say they need much more than this, HE is currendly doing weird funky stuff and often does no structual or module dmg to the bombers.

Some componends are fine, like the rudders and stuff, but everything “internal” is basically almost HE immune right now.

Can´t but the finger on whats excakly the issue but its very very weird atm.

Also fire does almost no dmg…

We can be lucky most bombers are on the lower side of the skill level and competiveness… even now most still only bomb instead of being usefull…

@UniqueScorpions-live

and buff bomber’s gunners in rb / sb so they aren’t useless with an ace crew.

I mean, theres nothing to argue here, thats an opinion.
If u want mine, make AI Gunners go for good… there should no AI Gunners on a Player Vehicle in this game if u ask me.

@UniqueScorpions-live

Lastly… bombers exist in grb quite often.

And these TIS Ma, TU-1, and SU-8 everyone is complaining about are more common in grb

I mean, ofc bombers excist also in grb… but theres only a few remodeled planes that are effective in GRB and all of them are not even prober long range bombers, why they got the buff, no one knows.

But imagine they give this buff to SB2, AD-4, A2D, Do335, all dual prop Me´s and Bfs, A-10, Su-25, IL-10,Su-6 … list continues for every plane that was used as a Hybrit/Heavy attacker/fighter

Currently we see the drama on a premium, the tis ma… imagine it would be not a marketplace premium, which price doubled since the buff btw.

[John_Do2002]

@Rinhord

Nah i would say they need much more than this, HE is currendly doing weird funky stuff and often does no structual or module dmg to the bombers.

Doesn’t help that gaijin makes bomber completely immune to <30mm HE/FI frag damage, artificially making planes relying on HE/FI without SAP/API worse.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

A2d and the Do were already kinda tanky tbh.

@Rinhord

If u want mine, make AI Gunners go for good… there should no AI Gunners on a Player Vehicle in this game if u ask me.

Why? Naval / air would be abysmal elsewise.
But making an ace crew worth it seems more than reasonable. Even Finn agreed.

@Rinhord

Nah i would say they need much more than this, HE is currendly doing weird funky stuff and often does no structual or module dmg to the bombers.

The update is like a week or two old. They’ll fix whatever bugs have arisen. Again they didn’t say it was concrete and finished.

Lastly… imagining everyone is a villain before talking with them didn’t help the convo earlier at all.
Now that you’ve asked / looked at what I was saying it’s a lot more agreeable no?

[Rinhord]

@UniqueScorpions-live

Why? Naval / air would be abysmal elsewise.
But making an ace crew worth it seems more than reasonable. Even Finn agreed.

Well, if u also ask me, crew level has a way to big of an impact anyways… so…
and naval i really dont care about, i just know that they had or have a big zombie players issue, where people just spawn, full steam and let the AI gunners farm XP for them, i think these days they “counter” this by kicking everyone who dosnt make an input in 5mins.

@UniqueScorpions-live

The update is like a week or two old. They’ll fix whatever bugs have arisen. Again they didn’t say it was concrete and finished.

How long did they took to fix terminators again? How long they took to “try to fix” glass bombers?

But at the end, even you agree, you just believe they will fix this “soon”… well i doubt that and therefore i defent my standpoint that its currently not balanced at all. :D
I mean, they ask for feedback and discussions and i guess so far everyone agrees that its not in the “perfect” state atm

[TheAnnoyingFinn]

@UniqueScorpions-live

It’s much easier to hit a huge bomber over a small fighter. Yes or no?

Yes.

But you didn’t answer my question;

@TheAnnoyingFinn

So are you saying that console players using a controller, are expected to have same kind of precision when aiming like shown with M&K in examples here or here to reliably take down bombers?

But as you said, you play sim.
Aiming in sim with fighters is harder than aiming with bomber gunners with comparable control method, while the bomber also has a huge FOV advantage.
Yes or no?

And while you have made claimw that you don’t have issues shooting down bombers, you have not presented any evidence supporting your claims.

@UniqueScorpions-live

Nice spelling

This wasn’t necessary. I understood what he meant just fine. Im sure you did as well. English isn’t everyone’s native language.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@Rinhord

big zombie players issue, where people just spawn, full steam and let the AI gunners farm XP for them, i think these days they “counter” this by kicking everyone who dosnt make an input in 5mins.

That’s a gaijin issue… and mainly they disliked it for grinding SL.

@Rinhord

Well, if u also ask me, crew level has a way to big of an impact anyways… so…
and naval i really dont care about

Well, gunners don’t swap sides when they’re being attacked from an opposite side.
Nor do literally half the crew seemingly do much in naval.
Like in RB… my spotters /aiming should be a little more autonomous by auto ranging.

@Rinhord

How long they took to “try to fix” glass bombers?

But at the end, even you agree, you just believe they will fix this “soon”

Partially. But most people I’ve seen complain want a full revert for easy kills.
Again, incrementally is the best method. Exactly how I setup my be change lists.

[TheAnnoyingFinn]

@UniqueScorpions-live

But most people I’ve seen complain want a full revert for easy kills.

Well we must be playing different games altogether, and reading different forums too. This is not my observation in the slightest, here on the forums, or in the ingame chat. Nor does it represent what i hope for the bomber damage models in the future.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@TheAnnoyingFinn

@UniqueScorpions-live

It’s much easier to hit a huge bomber over a small fighter. Yes or no?

Yes.

But you didn’t answer my question;

@TheAnnoyingFinn

So are you saying that console players using a controller, are expected to have same kind of precision when aiming like shown with M&K in examples here or here to reliably take down bombers?

But as you said, you play sim.
Aiming in sim with fighters is harder than aiming with bomber gunners with comparable control method, while the bomber also has a huge FOV advantage.
Yes or no?

Well there is no way to really buff fighter aiming for console users. So no they will never be expected to aim as well in a fighter / bomber.
Just like controlling a plane is better for M&K, than on controller.

Yes sim aiming is much harder (even more so for controller) for fighters and technically in a 1:1 easier for gunners, however that’s not taking into account you cannot outside of a bomber in pilot view.

But a Huge FOV advantage? I disagree. Fighters are very easy to see out of.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

There were some earlier comments demanding a full reversal, here in the forum. I remember because those were the first few I read since the update.

I haven’t seen much commenting even in the couple RB air matches I flew.

[TheAnnoyingFinn]

@UniqueScorpions-live

But a Huge FOV advantage? I disagree. Fighters are very easy to see out of.

So in sim, while the bomber pilot is in the gunner view, defending against a fighter, are you saying he has worse FOV and view at the fighter, than vice versa?

@UniqueScorpions-live

There were some earlier comments demanding a full reversal, here in the forum

Yet the word you used was most. Please try to stay consistent in your arguments.

This is my view on the overall survivability of bombers, and how i would like to have it in the future.
Behold, super simplified and easy to understand graph masterclass:

And from what I’ve read on the forums from the people who are against the current state, that optimal (or close to it) is what i think most want.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@TheAnnoyingFinn

So in sim, while the bomber pilot is in the gunner view, defending against a fighter, are you saying he has worse FOV and view at the fighter, than vice versa?

They’re both pretty well balanced tbh.

If you zoom out your view while in sim, (which I know you know how to do) in a pilots view as a fighter, it is about 180° across, which is about the same as the Gunner’s view.

[Rinhord]

I would say, personally, that the old DM was closer to being balanced then the new one but thats just my view… and theres a BIG difference in what a skilled vs unskilled pilot can and cannot do… so in terms of potential, i see the bombers have atm an INSANE overtuned potential. But just like the is-7 story in wot…its played by so many “unskilled/unwilling” players that it statisticly dosnt reflect. That saied… pov matters alot… and for me, no matter the skill, in an equal skill fight, the bomber wins atm and IF (and i have the feeling people will understand eventually over time) bomber players stop bombing only and seriously support the team/fighters + ground pound and use their gunners more often… it could end in fighters being useless soon… as long as bomber players keep being unskilled/not willing to adjust their playstyle… but thats speculation, i have the feeling that over time people will realise this… and if the DM model keeps beins even 50% of what it is now… they could drastically be and issue.

And Sim… while i agree Sim needs different balancing… who cares… theres barely anyone playing it these days for a reason… sadly. I am pro Sim, especiall ground sim… but it feels like since years now that the devs dont give a damn about it anymore, so i also dont.

And console vs pc… well… i also dont care :D I dont want them in my team, i dont want to play against them, i just want them gone and the cheats they have in especially GRB gone.

but if we continue to discuss console, pc, sim bla bla bla… a headtracker is OP in Sim… same as a high end PC setup in every mode. Theres no balancing in peripherals.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@Rinhord

I would say, personally, that the old DM was closer to being balanced then the new one but thats just my view…

Getting your tail blown off to two 7.62 doesn’t seem balanced in the slightest.

Or the fact a single 12.7mm always seemed to light a fire (still does though)

Also, the IS-7 is the way it is because Heat-FS exists.

The E100 is equally as good as the IS-7 but is at 7.7 for some reason despite the fact it should 100% be at 8.0 at least.

[TheAnnoyingFinn]

@UniqueScorpions-live

The E100 is equally as good as the IS-7 but is at 7.7 for some reason despite the fact it should 100% be at 8.0 at least.

Do you have an E-100 or IS-7 to have sufficient data to prove this? Also, a very wild claim

Im interested in hearing your reasoning for this claim.

Also please tell me, do you think the IS-7 is better than the IS-4M?

[Rinhord]

@UniqueScorpions-live

Also, the IS-7 is the way it is because Heat-FS exists.

i saied in WOT

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Nope. But I have killed both.

Statistically, they’re similar in their paper stats.
However the E100 preforms (according to stat shark far better).

But that’s for another topic.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

I thought you just had a typo tbh.

[TheAnnoyingFinn]

-This used to be off-topic nonsense-

[Rinhord]

can u please be more off topic?

Meanwhile i just finised my second b17 (usa 5.0) game ever and that was enough to be fully spaded, havent dropped a single bomb at a target… came out both times first with thousands of points between me and second place. Playing it excakly like u should now… as a supporter against fighters and killing all the stuff on the ground for tickets. (Did this prior to the b17 already a few days ago with other nations, so i already knew not to go far bases)

Even with 50% less “HP” or having a 50% weaker DM… its still OP as hell.

[TheAnnoyingFinn]

@Rinhord

Even with 50% less “HP” or having a 50% weaker DM… its still OP as hell.

Yeah possibly. Can’t know for sure unless we get that version. But 50% less HP doesn’t translate directly to 50% poorer performance.

There are other underlying issues with bombers, not just the DM. I have a bunch of improvement ideas for the overall bomber experience, that would most likely have an overall positive impact on the Air RB match environment.

I might make a completely new topic with my ideas later when i get home from work.

And yeah i got off-topic. Sorry. I’ll try to be better, Master Rinhord :D