Unless the t32 is hull down isn’t it easy to kill since the side is easy to pen or even easy to be disable as it long 90 mm muzzle brake is easy to take out + the long reload and then their 7.7 were heat rounds exist
But .50cals only really pen the thinnest of thin-skinned machines mainly. If they detonate ammo on something thin enough for them to hurt, I don’t see the issue there one bit. Say for instance a ZSU-57/2 - it’s a rolling ammo rack. Everything should detonate that thing.
Yes, the point is to ensure armor matters.
Armor cannot truly matter when every piece of it has an artificial “weakspot” they cannot hide or do much about.
If you are in a poor position on the map and cannot escape, yes you damn well should get steamrolled if he can pen you. If he can’t or struggles to pen you, you would track him, throw smoke in his face, and run away.
The point is both to eliminate the ability for SPAAG to charge around a corner instantly shredding your ability to shoot back and also to eliminate “if you can’t pen it, just shoot the gun!” as a tactic. Yes front-on barrel hits did happen once or twice in all of WW2, but they were freak accidents, and should not be encouraged. Heavies, nevermind armored casemate TDs, have usually worse gun handling, larger-caliber guns, and larger muzzle brakes than most things they’re fighting - having barrels be a “weakspot” unfairly punishes them when their low mobility and agility from their armor weight should be their downside.
“Just shoot the gun” would not exist. Heavies and armored TDs below a certain relative mobility would need tiering intentionally where few if any opponents can frontally punch through. Maps need to allow people to get around their sides with a bit of intelligent thought. Ammo of all kinds needs to do reliable damage and pen appropriately so idiocy gets properly punished.
Plenty would change compared to now. And most of it would be to the benefit of everyone, us two included.
The “but what about muh jumbo?” folk, not so much. They would experience growing pains, but then the fact that they can no longer cupola nor barrel shot away things they can’t pen would mean they would first die more often and two see the thing’s BR drop, which fans of that tank want to see anyways.
I don’t SPAAG spam as a problem provided the actual abusive aspects of the game get addressed - old armor models, barrel damage, APHE postpen, city maps. None of those are specific to SPAAG. SPAAG just reveal how bad all of those actually are.
Yes, just because you dislike the concept of something being frontally immortal if your gun lacks shells to pen it doesn’t mean the slowest tanks with zero agility should always be able to be frontally crippled “or they’re not balanced!!!” Give me a fucking break…
It is a deep canyon to dig out of, but they can start by picking the most common tank model and making that full volumetric (probably Shermans). Then move to the next most common (probably T-34s or Stuarts). Then so on and so forth. Eventually the majority of baseline tank hulls will be properly fixed.
The intent is that the maps allow people to go around the heavies if they cannot pen them, rather than giving all heavies an artificial weakspot they can do next to nothing about due to slow gun handling, larger calibers, giant muzzle brakes, or other stuff.
CAS of course is one option. But hardly the only one. You would:
- Spawn an SPG armed with a gun able to pen the strongest armor you can meet instead of your medium with its mediocre gun.
- Spawn one of the various large-caliber artillery pieces that do not care about how thick the heavy’s armor is and would annihilate it, with a nice side of HE-VT rounds to bop planes if you hate those too.
- Use the improved maps in your medium you’re committed to using and go around him.
- Track him, throw smoke in his face, and run away to try doing the above point.
- Drop Artillery Support on him (which would also be substantially more lethal as a product of undoing the nerfing of all forms of ordinance and explosives).
But if you found yourself in a bad location you can’t easily retreat from, and someone jumps you, there should be zero help for you, period.
Nah, we need less RNG in this game, not more. Gun barrels already have “a chance” of shooting if they’re damaged but in my experience they almost always misfire. Yes all of a few instances of front-on barrel shots happened in reality, but those were by complete accident at close range, not the purposeful shit we see nearly every game.
So no, we need barrels intentionally immune to all damage to force people to interact with a heavy’s actual armor profile at all times. If you have a round that can pen the armor, load it. If you don’t, flank it. If you can’t flank it due to a poor decision on your part on where to go on the map, that’s your own damn fault and nothing but a teammate killing him or his bad aim ought to save you.
Agreed. They’re all such target practice even on their own BR that when I bother playing them I play them like I would Jumbo Shermans - “fat mediums” or “heaviums” that have armor as a joke-level afterthought.
there are plenty of vehicles where projectiles “penetrate” with the equivalent of only a couple mm left of spare energy yet still inflict as much damage as if it didnt need to try. the damage models have limitations. I have that issue quite often on the Scimitar as its armour is thick enough to stop .50 cal on the side as some range, but as soon as you meet the overly black and white penetration calclulators threshhold you may as well have pressed “J”, thats not really how it should be.
it still survives a hell of a lot. damage models are also inconsistent as all hell on some (mostly russian) vehicles.
maus doesnt have an artificial weakspot tho. only some vehicles which are modelled badly (or where the penetration calculator craps itself as per usual) have these issues
No, it does, like all other heavy tanks. People just panic and shoot the gun barrel(s) when they cannot pen you, and the Maus is doubly weak here because its one of the few tanks with an unusually detailed barrel model that allows people to shoot down the entire barrel length, pen the breech at the back of it, and nuke the tank.
Hits to the ammo definitely should not be survivable in it.
I am always on the side of “if you got penned you may as well have pressed J” rather than any level of dice roll on whether your round does actual damage or not.
you say that like the cannon isnt a realistic weakspot lol.
agreed. but gaijin gives everything too many hitpoints.
I dont think crew dying to a round that would have less remaining kinetic energy than a childs nerf dart blaster is really fair.
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Still thought the point stands, their armor is plenty enough to tank rounds in an uptier, but at that point competing with high mobility and the ratty autocannons practically that happens less.
You do realize the t32e1,is4, and is6 are in the same br as the Maus they meet the same danger as the Maus does at least the Maus actually performs well
And the T32s both get over 300 mils of upper glacis armor, it’s very capable of bouncing rounds, mostly because all of those have heavily angled armor, whereas the Maus is just flat. They also all get relatively similar gun performance with the T32s getting a better reload by about 10 seconds. They’re plenty good, they just don’t usually wind up in situations where they perform well and they don’t do really well with everything else, the Maus is really mid in most situations except flanking at its BR because it has thick armor all around, still doesn’t bounce much but it has like 350 frontally so most APDS will non pen.
Idk what to say to this tbh. T32 somehow having magic angled armour and 10s faster reload while in reality the face is flat, it has cupola weakspot, the reload being only 4 s faster or something when aced all while lacking the penetration.
Shooting the barrel of a tank who is looking at you is very much not. That is how the majority of barrel shots happen in the game, its that I primarily take offense to. Yet to my knowledge such an event occurred what, three times tops in all of WW2, every time by complete accident.
Even if its technically possible, its horrible for gameplay of heavy armor in general, where when all other ammunition, CAS weapons, and maps already should more than balance out heavy tanks. Barrel damage being a thing is unnecessary frustration. Heavy armor deserves to have times where it encounters people unable to do anything at all to it frontally, not have even those cases be undermined by the built-in cheat code of “just shoot the gun if you can’t pen it!”
And also, barrels being melted from any direction by SPAAG or other autocannons is a large part of what makes fighting autocannon anything so needlessly frustrating, leading to too many people losing their minds when an AA happens to be good at tankbusting.
Maus can have crazy armor as well it’s called angling the tank hell fighting a Maus at range is scary especially since it has -7 degrees of gun depression
Maus has two pretty good guns the 75mm witch is good at disabling and a heat round that should be capable of over pressuring open top vehicles or penning light vehicles the 128mm gun is capable of penning up to 300mm of armor plus its aphe. also t32 reload is 14.5 secs while the Maus 128 is 18.2 and its 75 is 4 secs not to mention it can shoot smoke shells
armor can come at the cost of mobility especially for the Maus also the Maus has good survivability and from what it’s seems from statshark it can get good amount of kills having a 1.66 kill per spawn witch can be compared to the t58 kill per spawn 1.57 or even the Somua SM 1.63 kills per spawn
You still only have five games played in the Maus meaning you’re still stock grinding it😑
Since you replied with the same answer to like 4 things I will just combine it here.
The fact that people shoot tracks and barrels already means that armour matters. If I can pen the front of a tank why bother shooting out its barrel/tracks at all? Your argument is basically just making heavies with good armour completely invulnerable if you don’t get on their side.
That is not what I was talking about at all. Go read the comment again.
Yeah I agree. The issue is this is gaijin we’re talking about. They have been doing the exact opposite for over 5 years now. They keep expanding red zones and narrowing maps. Untill that changes your suggestion does not make sense.
Aye. There’s the rub.
So you now argue in favour of making tracks immune as well or what?
I belive he is using AI to reply
What does it change if they can be destroyed by bomb without being able to defend against it?
Most of this is after You die and still allows heavy to kill You back while spawning an air unit allows for easier revange kill.
You want to make heavies “better” by destroying the game for everyone else without really fixing heavies in long run. It is better as it is.
I have been playing a lot of heavies recently, T29 and now I have dusted off E-100
Heavies don’t have issues against other tanks, Maus has no issue against 6.7-8.7 tanks. The biggest issue for heavies are planes:
Just some expamples. As You can see I wasn’t even able to do much after spawning before being attacked by something I mostly can’t do anything about, even if I shoot them down it is mostly death for me too.
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Idk about that does not seem that AI to me.
Who is even worse? (Probably not me right…?)
Don’t wanna summon him but he is an admirerer of a certain armadillo like animal.
Pangolin is certainly something i guess. An F4U in 1944 France also rings a bell for bad arguers
took a second for the second one to appear in my head. But yeah I think pango is worse
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guys guys hear me out… 7.3 its a good cross of ww2 while still having that bit of a weakness