This was closed as it was not a bug report at all. The site is not to be used to post articles linking to Wikipedia. Again, shell selection is not a matter of purely what the tank historically used. But balance decisions. The shell not being present is intended.
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I don’t really understand gaijin, he says it’s based on historical data but they don’t care about something as historical as the ammunition’s entry into service, they could just give the tanks the bullets they historically carried and change the BR accordingly. A case would be the T-54, the 1947 model could be lowered to BR 7.0 having only the BR-412 bullet, then the 1949 and 1951 models would have a BR of 7.3 having to unlock the BR-412B, and to fill the BR 7.7 hole could add the T-54A connected to BR-412D. Keep in mind that the opposite of the T-54 of 1949 would be the M46, the opposite of those of 1949 and 1951 would be the M47 and the opposite of the T -54A would be the M48, and those three tanks use HEAT-FS, which would be a more or less well done historical balance.
PD:For the time being, the T-54A would also have the HEAT-FS available to face the M48, and I think that it would still be balanced since that HEAT-FS has more penetration but less speed, making it more difficult to hit at long distances. Apart from the fact that the M48 has a rangefinder and the T-54A a vertical stabilizer, I think that both would be fine in the same BR.
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I also think that the BR of the tanks is created in a rather bad way because it has been created based on an erroneous damage model, that’s why what it has generated is an erroneous BR, so to do it right you would have to improve it completely first. the penetration calculator to give you the most historical penetration possible, then give the bullets the most realistic damage possible and correctly adjust the volumetric bullets to definitely eliminate absurd ricochets, and once that is done you could do a BR as fast as possible Historically possible. As I said before, the T-54 of 1947 would face the M47, which with its HEAT-FS would give it the possibility of facing the T-54 without problems, but of course it is as I said, how are the HEAT-FS now? It would not be so easy, since there are many times that the damage of the HEAT-FS stops in the first crew member, or is absorbed by a sight or hits and acts like a normal HE, if it is fixed and the HEAT-FS work correctly and They do a more real damage and not as they are now that it is a random damage and that seems to have a certain RNG. APCR also have problems like this, with shots without damage or stopped in a single module without doing any fragments, for example in the Forum there are colleagues who have created several posts talking about the APCR issue and how they are nerfed, and how they could improve them to make them as realistic as possible.
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Im currently rocking the Chally DS to grind out the britain tree and to be honest, the L23A1 shells are a bit under-powered. You almost exclusively face 10.3s-11s. I’d rather take the L26 and be at 10.3 with the extra bite. Besides, I dont think the difference between L23A1 and L26 is actually all that massive. Most other nations get some form of advantage for their Premiums that usually result in them being 0.3 BR lower than their TT equivalent. Like the TURMS with its heavy ERA armour would probably be 10.3+ if it was TT. The Chally DS is literally just a copy paste of the Mk2 at the moment, with no advantage other than economy.
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Do the developers at least have plans to do something about it with the premium Magach 3 ERA? Since after the change it is BR 8.0 just like the Magach 5, it would be fine since they are from the same era what happens is that the magach 5 has the APDS-FS M111 and the premium Magach has the APDS M392A1 which is much inferior, and since the premium version is unbalanced because of the ammunition, it would have to either give the premium Magach the M111 or raise the BR to the Magach 5.
Personally I would opt to first give the premium Magach the M111 because of the extreme difference with the tank and bullet model dates (Magach 3 ERA-1983,M392A1-1961), and after that upgrade both the Magach 3 ERA and the Magach 5 to the BR 8.3 or 8.7.
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Yes, I understand that you make adjustments for balance reasons. As you can see, the British tanks might not have as good of a balance compared to vehicles from other countries (otherwise, there wouldn’t be so many people on YouTube making sarcastic comments on the official Challenger series videos). Through my own analysis of the game and historical references - which includes your input - I simply hope that the official team can address the somewhat awkward position the Challenger currently occupies.
Historically, it was equipped with the L26, and in the game, the L26 exists and is equipped on the Mk3. 10.3 seems like a better fit for the British crews, with better match-ups and queues. Even without the additional armor at 10.3, its mobility would be improved. It seems like a good option overall, and I’m just curious, very curious, why the official team hasn’t taken this path.
This not only fulfills the premise of our historically accurate game but also mitigates the issue of poor protection that players perceive in the Chally’s armor. Moreover, it can offer this tank a sniper-style gameplay at 10.3, thereby enhancing the distinctiveness and playability of the Chally DS. This has the potential to boost package sales (by the way, if I’m not mistaken, the Chally DS is likely the lowest-selling package within the 10.0-10.3 weight range, laugh). Regardless, it aligns well with the interests of both players and Gaijin.
Finally, if the official decision cannot be made or isn’t desired, whether to equip the Chally DS with L26 and raise its BR to 10.3, I strongly suggest Gaijin initiates a community-wide vote to decide whether the Chally DS should take this path. This would allow the observation of the preferences of the majority of British players who purchase this package.
Thats all
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Hear Hear, very well written.
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agree
“Even if major technological imbalances existed among the vehicles in real life, the battle rating system allows War Thunder to remain balanced at all ranks by only matching vehicles with similar in-game performance against each other.”
It seems to say, the existence of the BR mechanism is to ensure that vehicles are placed in a reasonable matchmaking environment while striving to maintain historical accuracy as much as possible. However, what Gaijin is currently doing seems to involve significant alterations to data rather than changing matchmaking. I’m not quite clear on the purpose of such an approach; it seems like a laborious and unrewarding endeavor. It’s not only the M111 of the Magach but also the DM33 of the Leopard 2A4 that have continuously drawn criticism from players.
If the official stance in promotion is to be the “most realistic tank combat game,” then there should be no need to emulate World of Tanks and recklessly alter tank data. I still hope that the official team takes some action; otherwise, the outcome may not be favorable for both Gaijin and the players.
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Gaijin caring out British players? Nah
There are so many changes in the trees that need to be made - changes to vehicles but they just refuse to do anything.
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All the changes that “need” to be done are all changes that require new underlying systems to be added.
They aren’t refusing to do anything, they’re working on adding said subsystems, and it takes time.
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me still waiting for my B25 cockpit
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I am constantly up tiered in the thing. Are you going to give it “premium matchmaking” so I cant see higher BRs?
If I’m downtiered once and a blue moon - what round does it matter what I have?
Also since you guys keep googly gobblin up the BRs if I wanted to run my Jaguar GR.1A in my lineup thats 10.3 now anyways.
The Rookiat 105 used to be 9.0 and it got a even better round added to it and now its 9.3 - so why not the DS? Even if it goes up to 10.3 I would take the better round for it. You sure as heck dont give it the real armor is has IRL, it’s slow can be penned from almost any angle resulting in death or crippled so why not give it 1 thing to fight back.
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I understand gaijin in a certain way, since if they put all the vehicles with their historical bullets, holes would be generated in the BR, but there are situations in which you see vehicles with bullets that in reality they did not get to use. I would prefer that they give them all their historical bullets, they will rebalance the vehicles well and add new vehicles to fill those gaps that would be generated in the BR, for example as I put before with the T-54 theme, lower the BR of the three and instead add the T-54A would have the HEAT-FS, and you could even separate the T-55A, having the T-55A with HEAT-FS and APDS and add a little more BR to the 1981 T-55M with APDS -FS and laser rangefinder.
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No such thing exists in game. All vehciles follow the same matchmaking rules.
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Yeah, they’re selling a Challenger Mk2 instead and calling it a Desert Storm challenger, even though the vast majority of Challengers on Op Granby were Mk 3s, using L26.
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SRAAM, careful, ASRAAM is something else entirely. And they are due a major buff. Being worked on currently. They might be kinda OP if we get everything they should have IRL. I kinda want them in the Jaguar.
But yeah, they either balance via BR or they balance via loadout. Doing both, really sucks
This is also incorrect.
Many aircraft in game have missiles they never used in service.
The F-4J(UK) manual also clearly lists AIM-9G with multiple pages dedicated to its fitting, operation and integration with F-4J(UK)
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SRAAM was intrigrated on the Harrier platform also. Sources also point towards it being linked to the GR.1 also.
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I agree, like the Yak-141 which fired zero missiles, but it still receives the best SARH in the game.
As you’ve just pointed out, this isn’t really relevant. There are plenty of weapons listed in technical manuals that aren’t in the game at all or are not on the correct airframes, for balancing reasons. Curious where you’ve found an unclassified J(UK) specific manual that talks about the 9G and not 9L though.
I’m not disagreeing with balancing decisions, just suggesting to the good people in this thread that they should start playing Russia like myself if they way to benefit from balancing decisions rather than be penalised. I’ve started to enjoy the game much more having done so.
Cheers.
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So give it the L26. If I have to face 11.0 tanks constantly and the unrealistic armor of Russian tanks, as well as British dart rounds not performing as they should at least give it a round with extra pen.
We know Gaijin hates British tanks but this is silly.
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