Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion (Part 2)

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
1266

Noticed another way the game is screwing over the CR2 the TOGS whole assembly is modelled as open space, which is fine however that means any dart that enters it isn’t deviated it always hits togs and takes out the breach. You can shoot TOGS near the top and the bottom and the result is the same.

Also the absolute baw bag that decided hits will cook of smoke grenades…conveniently CR2 smoke dischargers are on the only armoured part of the tank. if you are lucky to be hit in the turret cheek. Your smoke grenades on the side are cooking off too.

Which means you cant aim for the tiny pixel weak spots of the proper top tier tanks and instead die to their follow up shot

5 Likes
1267

This caused a wholeeee massive issue years ago.
dont even bother to try mention the word trunion or gaijin will shutyou down xD
It isnt hollow IRL or it would get cut clean through by almost any anti tank munition that has hit it.

Baw bag? a distinctly Scottish phrase that sir o.O
also yeah its convient af that the CR2 being world renowned as one of the most well defended MBTs is absolutely pathetically protected in game. Never mind the fact if someone as much sneezes in your direction its smoke cloud.

1268

The way I cope with the whole thing (besides not playing top tier) is to work on the premise that War Thunder is a fantasy game. Where facts are optional, in fact - very optional.

Truly magical bits of rubber on Russian vehicles are capable of stopping 120mm darts. They also don’t suffer from their real-world foibles of sending turrets into orbit.

Where NATO NERA is made out of papier-mache.

The world’s best mechanically scanned radar is a gremlin-filled lunatic that tracks everything apart from aircraft.

Where Western missile technology is akin to that of some discount fireworks bought from Homebase - e.g. Igla…

The list goes on, but you get the idea. It’s a weird and whacky world which is often the polar opposite of the real one. Once you view it that way, it kind of makes sense that if you were regularly guzzling vodka or anti-freeze - this is EXACTLY how a Challenger 2 is.

1 Like
1269

as much as id like to agree.

The fact US air has dominated for so long.
and now the typhoon , rafale and F15E all absolutely dog the rest of the roaster.

That german & sweden are the best ground trees by a large margin

disproves that.

The best radar is on the Typhoon now?

The only major advantage russia has is the Pantsir which is pretty obviously the best spaag in game.

The CR2 being this broken isnt a thing of russian bias at all…
the CR2 being like this is due to complete negligence of the game developers and the relay of information from bug reports.

Such as what happened to legwolf.
and most the other reports made, they got fobbed off.

russian tanks still have plenty bug reports on them too.
its just the devs being absolutely lazy af with a lot of stuff.
The CR2s need another full, proper overhaul to even be considered competitive in this game.

7 Likes
1270

Fair enough, our individual mileages may vary. That Germany/Sweden have strong Leopard top tiers is kind of a given.

I find using the Typhoon radar to be less consistent than the Gripen for example. Even the Tornado F3 radar - which doesn’t suffer from the supremely irritating IR/PD mode switching.

I find the consistent CR2 shenanigans (first stage ammo reload, armour, NERA arrays, breech, etc.) to be a consistent theme of Gaijin.

The whole double-standards re: Brimstone - yet we have a Su-34 weapons load that can wipe out half an opposing team if left unchecked.

The wholesale nerf of BOL dispensers for arbitrary reasons.

Historically, Russian top tier was particularly oppressive when you had KA-50s that couldn’t be killed, T-series tanks that absorbed shots into their sides (pre-autoloader fix) and the 2s38 that was stupidly undertiered for goodness knows how long. Might be less of an issue now - but in that time we STILL have a CR2 model and many other issues that just aren’t getting fixed.

2 Likes
1271

germany is strong BR for BR

What about the F15E and I ? both of them can rain down mavericks, GBUs and perfrom cap at the same time.

The T80BVM didnt absorb as many of my l27s as people made out it would of.
The T80BVM ERA was pretty strong.
But the DM53 and M829A2 usually would cut through. People made a lot of rage bait posts about it.

Still is wont argue that.

I havent kept up with that but ive noticed it yes but that isnt a sign of russian bias. again incompetance is where i lean to with that one.

Gripens radar for me is absolutely dogwater its led me to use the FGR2 and such again at a lower BR than use the gripen against typhoons, rafales , F15s and Ff16c’s

KA50s werent as big a deal as folks made out as well. Granted they were at release a massive issue.

Bias leans more to premium bias than to Russian bias for example.
The M1A1 Click Bait, it is essentially the same as the M1A2, even has a top tier round. Yet sits at 11.7

Or the swedish CV90105, thing absolutely destroyed the bracket for a long time.

The A10 and su25 systemically ruined the entire bracket bellow them and bellow that.

CR2 model and the “Rework” were complete jokes, nothing short of a disgrace im my opinion.

ive got hundreds of games in them as well and just cant be bothered anymore.

The CR1s are far, far funner for their BR

1272

Has its issues and weakpoints like anyone else

1273

Less than others

1275

lemme tell you a secret, nations get new vehicles at roughly the same pace.
A nation that is in the game since beginning for both ground and air naturaly will just have more vehicles and less gaps as a result

1276

I don’t mean capability gaps I meant armour gaps. I know Gaijin will add missing vehicles and maybe fix the amour one day…

1277

Not quite the same idea at all.

Germany is br for br one of the best trees in game for grb.
For arb its debatable.

The tanks are powerful, good spaa for most brs, amazing lights.
You get the point.

1278

Can certainly fly cap with my gripen.

But yeah the ground side of things is absolutely abysmal man.

10.7 seems to be the good spot bar thr occasional uptier.

1279

Britains hardly a new tree.
Same with japan they’ve been around for literally years.

Germany but does have a lot of nice tanks

1280

not right either, take a look at thunderskill its the best comparison we get but accurate enoug
lower brs 3.3-6.7 suffer greatly under the lack of lights and most tanks being slow / mid range speed.
This leads to not being able to play the objectives right or getting constantly flanked resulting in a lot of losses
7.0-10.0 isnt great either, overall Uk looks better br to br then germany does

“amazin lights” complete lack of lights from 3.7-6.7

objective as well, the only real dominiering vehicle at its br is the 2a7v

for most part right but like everyone gaps at times 7.0-8.3 luchs and wiesel are not spaas and 8.3-9.7

yes and thats why the amount of vehicles is in fact pretty close to germany,
Japan has less cause its newer and for the same reason israel has even less, that does in fact stay true

did i deny that anywhere? i am just denying luques statements

1281

Thunderskill reflects the players more than the vehicles.

Statistically britain has far worse tanks than germany does between rank two and 5 is it that goes to 6.7

thats just a lie.
ill work from 10.0 and back.

10.0 has Leopard 2K, radkampfwagen, leopard 2AV. gepard 1a2, weisel 1a2 and the ozelot for spaa as well.
Thats a 5 tank lineup with a great light, a great MBT and a good mbt and then two decent spaa and a TD.
unfortunately they are 9.7 and not 10.0 but for the list they are in the same rank.

for 9.3 you have
lights - Begleitpanzer 57 (and tam 2IP if you are including prems.)
MBTs - leopard 1a5, KPZ70, T72M1, M48 Super and the Leopard A1A1 L/44
SPAA - Gepard (long in the tooth but a great spaa none the less)

For 8.3
Lights - none due specifically but can uptier both marder and DF105
MBTS - M48A2 G A2 and the turm III ( if we include prems)
SPAA - gepard
TD - Rakjpz (hot)

for 8.0
lights - DF105, marder 1a3 and the BMP1
MBTs- Leopard 1
SPAA - none closest is weisel 1A4 at 7.3 (this isnt good but most nations have a gap here.)
TD - Rakjpz 2 (standard) and the raketenautomat. which is destructive af.

All of these lineups are substantially better than what most other trees can field at the same BRs, These also do not include outliers and mix and matching BRs those are explicitly if you use only the BRs as they are listed.
For example can take 9.0 to 9.3 or take 9.7s into 10.0 ,
the leopard A1A1 would sit in the 9.3 area for example.

Thats just blatently not true.
The tigers for absolute years sat at 5.7 as well as the panthers, both were under BRd compared to the competition.

Again most trees lack a light in that area
USA 3.7 - 6.0
Germany 3.7 - 6.7
USSR is such a mess the closest i see is the 2.3 to 4.3 jump to the ASU
Britain 4.3 - 6.3 not as much but still two whole BR brackets.
Japan 3.7 - 6.3
china is in the second best spot for lights it seems next to france both have one for almost every BR
Italy 3,7 - 6.0
france - best position IMO due to having a good light for almost every BR
sweden 2.7 - 6.7 unless you count the jump between the 2.7 and the PT76
then its 2.7 - 5.3

Japans been in the game for years and theyve only just started to have some additions.

No no, im not saying you deny it at all.
Im just stating the tree has a lot of really nice tanks.

You seem to have an issue with the dude.
Maybe take it up in private messages rather than bring germany into the CR2 chat once again.

Also germany has some of the best guns for the BR.
The PZIVs, stugs, hetzers and ostwinds etc.
you also have the panthers, tigers, and tiger 2s in this area.

far better vehicles than what most trees can field at the same respective BR.
Yes they only can use teh little car light, but remember it has a good fun and is very quick.
i still use it in my 6.7 lineup due to this.

Britain has roughly 89 ground TT vehicles 27 prem/ event ( I may have miss counted due to how many there are.) total of 116

Germany has roughly 104 TT vehicles 44 prem/ event ( I may have miss counted due to how many there are.) total of 148 tanks

thats a difference of over 32 vehicles.
Britian was added in 2016 rougly no? thats 9 years ago and only recently got a lot more added to it.
Germany has been in it since the get go no?

1282

like i said, i used the thunderskill thing for quick reference, that is not me lying

its a line up thing regardless 2av is an event , quite an old one even and for the vast maturity not available 10.0 is only radkampfwagen and leo 2k. it suffers under the 10.7 br black hole and gets sucked into it and doesnt realy perform as a results

but generaly i do find the high tiers 7.0 up the most balanced as well. my problems rather lie in the lower brs

yes and the time difference between germany and Uk explains those 32 vehicles, time wise they do have the same

not the case anymore and even then still the case of realy slow for their br and being easily flanked as a result. taking them out aint that hard

8 years, the japanese tree aint that small anymore 59 tech tree i count alone
still checks out compared to others in my opinion considering germany had like a 3 year headstart
to consider is as well that the earlier it was added the less resources had to be split between different trees

best guns maybe, they still get beat out in other areas, everyone had their own strengths. other nations being focused on speed, armor or win trough cas dominance cough USA cough

if that guy would stop his hate boner for germany it wouldnt be needed shrug
once again i wasnt the one that did take it here, i dont start conversation about it like he does in german threads
even now i am only answering you guys

1 Like
1283

No i meant its a lie to say the BR brackets have bad vehicles.
hence the comparitive list of good vehicles at said BRs

The 2AV I sometimes forget is an event vehicle. they were cheap a while back.
The 10.0 area is a bit emptier now adays but hence the reference to the uptier able nature of vehicles, hell i still take the Leo2K to 12.0 and it does fine there due to the mobility 20mm auto cannon combo

The tiger 1s are some of the fastest heavies in their BR brackets are they not.
The tiger 2s sit at about 42 KMPH last i checked as well at 6.7
reverse for the panthers is a killer though.

yeah but its only had a few jammed in recently due to complaints.
As well as that germany has nearly double japan with 104 TT and even so 30 odd less than britain which is only a year older.

yeah that is a pain in the hole tbh.

they arent sluggish but i get what you mean.
T-34 for example out paces the PZIV but does not out gun it.

Been a while since ive been bellow 7.7 as well.

I say it not to be crude or anything its more so it keeps the topic on the CR2 , as much as i love discussing the game and many aspects of it. the replies weve had with one another are quite far off topic.

If he chooses to spout nonsense there, counter him on it and what not.
but id generally just not entertain it.
saves you a headache.

ive only seen him in here talking bout the CR2s and any other nonsense thats came out i dont agree with or isnt true i correct.

1 Like
1284

Oh god, do we have a german trying to convince you that they are worse than all nations in the british forums again… i wouldn’t bother if i were you.

2 Likes
1285

If you would actualy read, you would see that i did not do that.
I said that germany has its issues as well and isnt perfect.
Nowhere did i compare it to another nation and say its worse

1 Like
1286

It isnt perfect but it has more, better tanks, throughout the BRs compared to most other trees.
It has a nice set of lineups, its biggest issue was the cas and cap for GRB (especially the non existent Cas and cap till recently at top tier)