Happy New Year 2025!!!
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I did a little maths experiment a while ago to see how western MBTs composite armour performed compared to Russian and Chinese composite, iirc correctly the western composite performs at about 1/3 the effectiveness of RHA for thickness, while Russian and Chinese composite is almost perfectly 1/1 with RHA.
The developers could fix all the issues legwolf reported, make all composites perform equal to RHA and the games balance really wouldn’t change that much, everyone already aims for the weakspots without composite.
Instead they will continue to do the bare minimum of research to keep pumping out excuses for why they won’t actually fix anything.
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New year no change to the chalenger still.
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Composite on the front lower plate of CR2 would make a massive change to gameplay.
Currently anywhere on the hull or turret and it’s a free kill.
Gaijin need or move the Leopard 2A7V and the STRV 122 up to 13.0 - 14.0 they are so superior to anything in game either that or nerf the reload to 10 seconds and they would still be massively superior to any CR2.
Game balance is cooked nothing Britain could have (excluding the 2A6M CAN) will ever be as good as the Leopard 2A5 and above :(
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Seriously stop overvaluing. Your hate is coming out.
Should their br maybe raised above others?
Yes but your statements of anything higher then a 0.3 br step above others or 10s reload is ridiculous and just your pure hate for the nations
Not at all they are so superior to anything else in game. They should be a higher BR like how the Typhoon and Rafale should be a higher BR
The fact remains a Leopard 2A7V can tank shots, drive around the map with great mobility, and destroy targets with it’s fire power. The tank is so far a head of the CR2, M1, Leclerc etc.
It’s not a nation biased when Italy and France now both have a high tier Leopard 2 variant. In fact I would include the 2A7HU in that list too however Italy has a much smaller player base than Germany and Sweden.
Also for the record the worst top tier tank has an 8 second reload after its 4 round ready rack is depleted.
yes they are a 0.3 step above the others, just like what i proposed.
But you proposed to put them at ridiculous 14.0 because you are salty thats just wrong
did i argue that?
and thats why those all have way higher reload. its more a problem of the map design as well that challengers cant perform as they should
it is because it stems from your hate for germany which you ahve shown more then enough openly.
And the playersize has absolutly nothign to do with br balancing
yes but before that they have a realy fast reload which balances it out. its the same how the pzh2k is handled. Leos reload starts out at 7.8 as well and only gets down to 6 at ace.
Challys are at 6.5 from the start and go to 5s. Stock wise that is better
Something gajin should do for balancing is increase ready rack size and remove L23 of the challengers.
But thats not the fault of leopards and sth you guys need to work out
0.3 isn’t enough to stop a CR2 seeing a Leopard 2A7, Germany as you know is hugely popular ( The TURM III was the most played tank based on Gaijin statistics)
13.0 just means the CR2, Leclerc etc will be dragged up to face the 2A7 which outclasses it
13.3 - 13.7 But we know Gaijin would increase the other tanks to make sure each nation has a “top tier tank”
Map design is a problem, more armour turning the CR2 into a T-90M style bulwark would be a nice way to balance it’s horrendous mobility.
I don’t hate anyone, sure German mains can be frustrating, but so can Swedish, Russian and USA mains. I don’t get caught up in nation discussions things will come eventually!
Player size as in we have more exposure to the Leopard 2A7V and the STRV-122 although the 2A6NL and 2A7HU are as good
Yes the CR2 needs more than 4 rounds, it’s a really easy fix
and again, popularity is not a br factor, if anything it is an overall br decompression thing which would result in everything rising further including challengers
yes thats how uptiers work congratulation. even if 2a7v gets raised in br it would always be at a br the challengers could meet it.
The br step between them will never be big enough to warrant that. Is the 2a7v stronger then the challys yes. is it 1.3 br stronger ? No they would meet each other either way.
buddy you go into the german thread regulary complaining about germany and complain about the german stuff specialy. There is a reason you have been made into a meme cause you constantly do it. It comes heavily across as your german hate, i dont say that jokingly.
that one is worse by a good bit. But how many play them, or how strong the overall line up is, as seen of sweden does not play into the BR of a singular vehicle
I have been guilty in the past, there is no point taking it out on other nations. Gaijin will add whatever is missing in time. 2025 is a New Year :)
I haven’t used the 2A6NL I assumed it was uprated over the standard 2A6 making it a viable alternative to the 2A7V
The Chinese mbts at 11.0 are better than the cr2s i have at 12.0
The 2a7 and strv should be at 12.7 to allow decompression and push other stuff up to 12.3 behind them.
Question why are you actually here?.
Youre contributing nothing to the cr2 conversation bar arguing about leopards.
The challanger 2s right now are utterly pathetic and genuinely could be 11.0 and 11.7 respectively and still struggle.
The cr3 td wasnt even good enough to be 12.0 for Christ sake and was released directly to give britain a tank to compete with the 2a7 and 90M.
The cr2s dramatically need either fixed or we need major decompression to allow them to actually breath.
The 2a7 and strv 122 could easily go to 11.7 and let the 11.3s of the game breathe.
Nah its just a CnP 2a6 overall
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and thats not true either and completly wrong thats your own bias and parital hate for the situation of the challengers speaking. But the challys are better.
The chinese mbts have a constant reload of 7.1s and has a penetration of 577mm. Furthermore they suffer of the russian space programm syndrom and are very easily ammo racked.
You should stay factual, wild claims of your doesnt make them true
as above no they wouldnt be, at 11.0 they would dominate everything. there is a reason why UK does have a good 10.7 line up already
thats the problem with additions that are completly new, KF41 suffers under the same thing.
Gajin did expect it to be better, butter further research after they implemented it resultet in it not turning out as well as they expected because they overestimated it, like the spalliners
the cr2s are not the only ones with that problem and are not the worst tank out of the bunch, ariete, merkavas, chinese tanks all suffer under it as well. They are minority tanks which just dont have much information released about them making it hard to prove stuff and balance it.
you are aware leo 2a7vs are 12.0 ? you are asking for their brs to be decreased right now and if you actualy would read wait i said earlier you would read that i did say that a 0.3 br increase above the other tanks would be reasonable.
That being said it wouldnt realy matter since 1 the br steps below would still get sucked into their matches or 2 the players take top tier aircraft into their line ups and meet Leopards either way because of that since top tier aircraft come with 12.7
and to answer your question
stupid claims do in fact get answers. I am not the one who took the leopards into this conversation. I dont go regulary into other nations thread to complain about them or similar etc.
Thats luques job.
I justt responded to his ridiculous claims.
And why i check this thread is because the progress about challengers does in fact intrest me, but typicaly i dont say sth about it because development and technical data isnt my field of expertise.
But since the chally 3 is being modified and uses the german cannon i do check out both chally threads too, in fact share information about the chally 3 project as well like that DM83 is in its certification phase now and soon should be the official new ammo round for UK and Germany
its copy paste, they have the same values, even when the 2A6NL strictly speaken should get worse armor
btw, that isnt quite right either, chally 130 while being a german project should be added to the UK as well in my opinion. Chally 3 is getting closer and closer to being finished as well. How it performs to its counterpart 2a8 would be another matter
Problem we have is CR3 looks like CR2. We have no way to challenge Gaijins interpretation of the vehicle.
CR3 TD should have been held off and CR3 final if its hampered with the lower HP engine and we don’t have a rework with the “regen steering” we will end up with a CR2 with more armour? and better firepower. The 2A8 and T-90M Obr 23 will wipe the floor with it.
Fingers crossed :)
addition of one doesnt stop the addition of the other
engine stuff is yet realy to be seen as well, there still is no real official statement about it. If there is none in the future would get the same old one propably yeah. Germany is in the same situation was rumoured for a new engine to compensate the for the throphy, but nothing official yet.
i mean that is in fact already a big change and does a lot. Specialy if gajin at that point finaly ends up adding DM63/73 as well at least and we get insensitive rounds
True but it was not well implemented no change to the CR2 armour
Maybe lets wait and see, yes an APS system is a key requirement (trophy I think is the only real option)
That would help, but then Russia/China currently do not have insensitive rounds IRL.
The CR3 will more than likely be a CR3TD with blow out panels and if GJ is feeling particularly generous 10% more armour… because we won’t know armour values so it’s at their discretion.
CR3 will still have mantlet issues, shoot the left side and kill two crew, shoot the right side kill the gunner and rack the tank. And the giant drivers hatch and LFP will be the same too.
Trophy will be nice but will not stop darts like the iron fist. Plus we will more than likely be stuck with one set of charges as we are now.
No, but, I think everyone would have prefered the (at the time) 5 existing CR2s to have gotten the dev time put into adding the CR3. Especially given as it was an overall downgrade over the CR2s, especially when it started getting nerfed.
Given all the problems the CR2s have, and the fact the CR3 doesnt address any of them, and instead just adds a whole new set of issues. It was a really wierd choice to add it.
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