or keep it notably underperforming.
with how WT plays even if CR2 was 100% accurate it would still not be the meta. higher top speeds on the abrams and leo 2 will keep them as the best options naturally as this games top tier is lobotomised call of duty nuketown
They should just drop the BR’s, but that ain’t happening as long as it’s player stats remain decent.
I’d prefer it if they just removed L27 from the Challenger 2 and placed it at 11.3. At least it’s safe from 12.7 MM that way.
Unfortunately they won’t put the Black Night or 2E down to 12.0 just because they seem to have this idea that all nations need a top tier MBT so we have two Challenger 2’s (That are 11.7 normally) at 12.7 because one has an APS and the other has 200 more horses in the engine (And a .50 cal which is also on one of the 11.7 Challies) which is really cool since the M1A2/Namer/T-55/T-80U/T-90M with an APS is the same BR as the one without it and the Leopard 2 PSO/Ariete AMV is only a marginally higher BR than the 2A5/PSO despite them having 150-200 more horses in their engine.
I think it’s about time for us to push for them to go down in BR especially since we have the M1A2 in the tree that definitely outshines the 2E and the M1A2 (Trophy-HV) for the BN. 12.0 would work for both of them and we can use them in the lineup with our Challenger 2 LEP/CLIP/3-prototype-production/Gaijin fantasy/TD
I think it’s about time for us to push for them to go down in BR especially since we have the M1A2 in the tree that definitely outshines the 2E and the M1A2 (Trophy-HV) for the BN. 12.0 would work for both of them and we can use them in the lineup with our Challenger 2 LEP/CLIP/3-prototype-production/Gaijin fantasy/TD
Never going to happen. Would be very unlikely even if the CR2s had a significantly larger playerbase.
Efficiency calculation rubbish.
Abandon all hope.
M1A2 SEP v3 fills that niche now.
They need to do a pretty substantial overhaul of Top-Tier BR’s anyways:
Britain has a gap between 10.7 - 11.7, so removing L27 and placing the Challenger 2 at 11.3 would give it a counterpart to the IPM1, T-72B3 and Merkava Mk.3’s.
Similar story for Germany, they have a gap between 10.7 and 12.0(!) so lowering the Leopard 2A5 whilst limiting it to DM33 seems like the easiest solution.
Of course, I’d rather have new vehicles that plug these gaps instead, but I’m just focusing on changed usually carried out in BR updates.
Exceeds it, more than, bigger, higher, better, greater, larger.
What is this silliness
With all due respect… what would actually change by lowering those tanks to 12.3 or 12.0? The br pool is so small that anything above 11.7 gets pulled up to 12.7 anyway. Sometimes even 11.7s end up in those matches. Would you feel better just seeing “12.3” on the screen? Would you use it as an excuse when a 12.7 blows you up with a random shot? These changes are pointless unless they serve to make room for new tanks with stats suited to that higher BR.
As you can see, I also proposed a BR raise to 13.0.
Besides, that kind of thinking would prevent any down-tiers at 12.0 - 12.7, period.
Seriously, just think about things for more than a second before replying. If these vehicles are down-tiered now they’ll benefit from it later down the line when newer stuff is added that raises the maximum BR, perhaps enough for them to fall outside of the max BR bracket.
With your logic the basic M1 Abrams, T-80B, Leopard 2A4 and Challenger 1 would still be facing Leopard 2A7V’s, M1A2 SEP v3’s and T-80BVM’s.
And if you believe it doesn’t matter, then why even take issue with to begin with? Clearly you don’t think it has any effect so it won’t do any harm then either.
If you’re not going to add anything constructive or useful, just don’t bother replying with a pointless notification.
Relying on BR changes alone is a sticking plaster - it doesn’t fix broken vehicles. It should be part of the solution but Gaijin need to sort out a lot of the top tier stuff more broadly.
A vehicle that is badly modelled will STILL be badly modelled at a lower BR. Lowering it just papers over the cracks.
Example being the CR2 Mantlet having bloody great holes in it - these will be penned by a lower BR shell as well as a higher BR shell…
Believing in Gaijin to fix (modern) vehicles is like living your entire life believing you’ll win the lottery one day.
Statistically not gonna happen.
Okay, in an IDEAL world - that is what would happen…
Not my fault Gaijin seem more keen on gooner-slop and premiums than fixing existing content.
Currently, you can be matched with vehicles up to 1.0 BR higher than yours. It goes without saying that a 12.0 vehicle can easily end up facing a 13.0 one. This effect is compounded by the “ceiling” or limit: since the BR cannot go beyond 13.0, matchmaking is forced to pull from lower tiers, specifically 12.7, 12.3, or 12.0. This is exactly what happens now, so nothing would change in the immediate term. As I previously wrote, I assume you missed this looking at your reply, your proposal would only be useful if new tanks were introduced to fill out the higher BR brackets. Currently, that isn’t feasible because it would require full 12.0 or 12.3 lineups; many factions don’t even have a single vehicle at that level. Could it be beneficial in the future? Perhaps. They are starting to introduce modern tanks, so I don’t think we’ll go beyond 13.0 for years. Even the moderators have admitted that, having reached the modern era, the available content to add is limited. How long do you want to wait? 15 years? I understand long-term planning, but this doesn’t seem like a viable solution to me. If you really want to propose something like this, it should be paired with a matchmaking spread restricted to +/- 0.7 or +/- 0.3 to ensure a real impact. I’m not against your idea, but perhaps you should think it through a bit more before replying. As Otter wrote, it would merely be a stopgap measure. Your reasoning relies on the assumption that a match would consist solely of players at a specific BR, but that isn’t the reality; your Leopard with DM33 ammo would still find itself facing 12.7 vehicles.
Try playing 10.7 and see how many up-tiers you get into BMPT’s & Type 90 ‘Fuji’s’, despite them being 1.0 BR away from 12.7.
I still play my M1A2 at 12.0 frequently, and around 2-3/10 matches are partial down-tiers.
I never claimed that these small BR changes would suddenly and magically prevent them from being up-tiered to 13.0, I’m saying these small changes will lessen the number of times that happens, which is only beneficial for these vehicles which struggle in such up-tiers.
It also means that you’ll face more vehicles of your same BR or below given that only 4 vehicles per team can be the maximum BR in that match. There’s lots of benefits to these changes that you’re (choosing to) not mention.
I see absolutely no reason to deny or oppose these vehicles which are widely stated to be inferior to other current 12.7’s from getting some breathing room and more frequent (partial) down-tiers.
As far as I’m aware nobody here has a crystal ball, so let’s not pretend like we know what changes will happen during which time.
Gaijin has flat out denied this plenty of times already, this is not going to happen and they’ve made that extremely clear.
So the only alternative is changing BR’s.
Besides, the maximum BR was 9.3 only 8 years ago, and means we’ve had 10 steps of BR increases over that period of time, yet you’re out here acting as though a 0.3 - 0.6 BR step increase takes 10-15 years.
Ok here, think about it like this.
Ignoring that all of these are undertiered, you’d play IPM1 because it can’t face 12.7. You’d play M1A1 because it can only face 4 12.7s but can’t face 13.0. You’d play M1A2 because while it can face 13.0, you’d only see a max of 4 13.0 players. Moving top tanks to 13.0 would likely free 12.0 from our current 13.0 cas as gaijin would subsequently make top cas 13.3 at minimum. While I could have explained this better, it does change many interactions at top tier.
You’re still missing the point: nobody is opposed to a BR change. I myself asked for a change almost identical to yours, just like many others. I’m just trying to show you that it wouldn’t really solve much. Playing at 10.7 results in fewer imbalances for the exact two reasons I mentioned earlier: first, matchmaking can pull from both above and below, and second, 10.7 lineups are packed with tanks for every faction. So, the improvement you’re predicting would be far less significant than you imagine. I didn’t intentionally leave anything out; obviously, if I could play my 12.0s against 11.7s or lower, I’d have a lot more breathing, I just didn’t think it was necessary to spell it out. It seems like something anyone would realize. As for the “crystal ball” comment, I should point out that just a couple of months ago, if not less, a moderator explicitly stated exactly what I’ve been arguing. If you’re talking about spreading out the BRs even further, you’d still run into the same problem: a lack of tanks. It’s true that eight years ago we were at 9.3, but that was before today’s tanks were added and before any BR decompression took place. We’ve already had some decompression by now, and they’re adding the latest, most modern vehicles. I know Gaijin doesn’t want to narrow the matchmaking range because they want to keep matches flowing smoothly, but that’s precisely why a simple BR shift at the top tier wouldn’t achieve much. That’s what I was trying to get across. They simply need to fix the tanks themselves. Please don’t treat me like someone who wants the status quo to remain; a few months ago, I actually lashed out at the moderators for their useless replies and got blatantly censored XD.
Honestly, I didn’t quite catch what you were trying to say in the first part, sorry about that. I fully agree regarding the CAS. That’s why I proposed the same downtier.
Means more than or greater than. In this case can it do the thing, yes does it beat the required metric we need to do the thing yes it exceeds it.
British capability reports are always very critical, we do not use hyperbole like our US and Russian friends. It’s Hypersonic…Well sure if you launch it Mach 3 at 60Kft it will be Hyperssonic by the time it hits the ground…(looking at you Knizhal)
If the round could not do what it was designed to do they would report it as so and look to a solution be that another way to kill a Russian tank with K5.
When you factor in BAE bought a T-80U with K5 and had it for testing, plus the leaked information on system to the USA it seems strange you would not expect the next generation of US, German and UK ammo to be able to penetrate a K5 array.
Are you forgetting the fact that the Challenger 2 Prototypes existed before L27A1 was produced?
Like I said previously, I’m listing changes that can be carried out in a simple BR changelog.
Introducing whole new vehicles isn’t just a BR update.
