Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion (Part 2)

[An_Pigeon]

@luque13

CR2 literally has turret cheeks, that is it can we please stop this notion of armour.

The ufp is better than most the other mbts bar T series and the leopard 2a7 / swede one.
The actual ufp is pretty solid, the issue is tbe LFP isn’t great.

You’re stating it has worse armour than the 2a4 which is just false as hell mate.

@luque13

Top of the TOGS box that’s your breach o

Didn’t happen to me a couple nights ago man

@luque13

90 breach by a micron and zero effect

Have you use the T90? The breach isn’t a small thing to hit at all. every single top tier has roughly comparable breach sizes.
Difference is things like abrams have composites within it.

@luque13

your own you are dead to everything.

Seriously? You only die to everything if you slam it into an open field and get pelted, if you position right, which you can with any / all top tiers it’s extremely mid.

It can sometimes take whole flanks, especially the likes of BN or 2E which are pretty nicely upgraded over the CR2 standards like the 2F.

@luque13

still then it will be one of the worst tanks at top tier.

It’s literally middle of the pack rn.
Most top tiers are pretty well balanced.
The merkava MK4 for some odd reason just got absolutely buried in nerfs, think it got 2 or 3 nerfs back to back. You’ve got the ariete which is essentially useless and didn’t even warrant 12.7.
The Oplot I stopped working towards because between the glaring holes in its armour and its round, it just isn’t really worth the hassle in getting.

Hence why there are barely any Oplots rolling around at top tier.
CR2 sits comfortably in the middle of the top tier tanks, yes it should get its correct armour all round, not just additional composite block.
However, due to some absolute C***womble it cannot get anywhere near its real numerical data as then Gaijin are liable for many lawsuits etc from the MOD.

It’s speculated to have about half its IRL armour values if we go by the old leaked armour documents. It cannot get them now at all due to said leak.

@luque13

mantlet armour

What MBT has mantlet armour ? it is literally designed into almost every MBT as a weak point

@luque13

Other top tier tanks have hull armour

only the 2A7 and 122 have effective hull armour.
All T series tanks have an UFP, so does CR2 and abrams. with massive weak points.
Do not try and tell me the T90 or T80 don’t have huge frontal weak points.

@luque13

And if they miss the mantlet the round will go straight through the angled roof killing the turret crew.

You can fire through the roof of

• T90M
• T80 BVM
• Leopard 2A5,6,7
• Ariete.
• Leclerc
• ZTZ 99A /WZ1001
• VT4A1-

All of which you can kill the crew from hitting them with a dart in the roof. Only tanks with absolute flat roofs will stop it happening.

@luque13

no other tank has that weakness with the M1

See above mentioned list.

@luque13

T series tanks absorbing it or bouncing it.

Use them I dare you to.
Having used them extensively what I realise is. Too many people shoot the UFP rather than aim
Take the half second if that to aim down or into the breach and you will win the majority of engagements. Its why my M1A2 has a near 2.0 KD and I use it in a 13.0 lineup.

Stop bringing up T series tanks just because you can’t fight em.

[The_Se7en]

@Smin1080p_WT Please can we have the gun mantlet lowered, seeing it not flush with the turret is driving me nuts.

[l2ulan]

Need to research this, but the batteries are clearly shown in parallel pairs and power output on one side would not be affected by loss of the others. In addition, there are turret batteries and probably a battery override function in which the power routing of hull, turret, and radio batteries can be swapped in order to keep the tank fighting.

[da12thmonkey]

At last, we can get a Royal Tank Regiment “Chinese Eyes” decal

[Decals] Monthly Decals for November! - News - War Thunder

Yours for just 50 player kills in British ground this month

[The_Se7en]

You know looking at how badly the visual model has aged for Challenger 2 I think it should be in the list to get a complete remodel like the Tiger 2s have just got.

Currently I have this list of issues from outstanding bug reports:

• All TES kit ERA cages have the wrong proportions and are not actually mounted properly to the hull. Including Challenger 1mk3
• The wheels are of varying sizes between all Challenger variants.
• The base Challenger 2 is missing its splash guard.
• The base Challenger 2 is missing its frontal combat identification panels with Dorchester 2E equipped.
• The base Challenger 2s headlights are not connected to the hull with no TES kit equipped.
• The mantlet of all Challenger 2 variants is raised too high.
• The top 2 hull weld lines are not positioned correctly along the hull armour. They should be vertical not diagonal.
• Base Challenger 2s Dorchester 2E TES kit has its foremost blocks of armour too small.
• Challenger 2 rear slat armour needs animating to have swinging momentum physics as it is currently static.
• Challenger 2 OES currently shares ECM antennas with the 2F and TES when the model should be unique.
• Challenger 2 OES lacks detail on top of its addon armour along its turret sides. If you check a video flying overhead of Megatron and compare them to the game you will see what I mean.
• Turret bar armour is missing triangular joining sections in the corners.
• All Challenger 2s lack their meteo sensor mast.
• All Challengers appear too highly raised off the ground than what you see in real life.

This is all without mentioning the damage model changes which should happen.

Some of these issues are very minor but they all add up to it being outdated when we know Gaijin could do it better. To top it all off I don’t think the camouflages look very good either, a lot of the skins are weathered in ways that the Challengers don’t look like irl.

[Whiskey_077]

[Sea_Harrier_FRS1]

Would look and feel quite nice if done properly but for some reason I doubt they would do it to the same level as they should be doing

[luque13]

CR2 power updates are nice, sadly turning still kills it we really do need a rework on energy lost while turning.

[dotSHINI]

Not like players already found the solution lol

[Master_Teaz]

Reduce the Braking force!

(there might be just be that report coming up soon)

[dotSHINI]

Thw code for the swedish elde 98 can be used for regenerative steering.
Its completly community coded for leos, chsllengers and co and works fabulous

[Master_Teaz]

oh i know that, regen steering is unfinished though considering it gives you more power when steering which is ludicrous, and radii are also tending toward being too large, especially at lower gears

you’d also need the ability to kick the gears down at will (in auto mode) returned as to be able to reduce your turning circle at will

Clutch braking is the only method tanks use currently, Double diff steering was exclusively for the Elde as of the time being,

[_Froge]

ik this is a really minor thing, but the outer ring of the CR2 sight shows the FoV at max zoom, so in-game it should function as an option for the “Field of View” customisation… would this be something that could be bug reported? would be nice to have it function properly

[Fernando_alonso]

why is the challenger so bad in game

[Morvran]

Gaijins bad modeling coupled with a gamemode & maps that favours tanks with an offensive doctrine. Chally 2s are best suited in hulldown positions

[Fernando_alonso]

I dont understand gaijins mentality, the challenger 2 has horrible armor all-round, doesnt have spall liners on the sides of the hull which makes no sense, the reload is alr, the “top” shell is one of the worst if I remember, the russian one has similar pen but the shell mass is much higher and results in better post pen, this tank is overall one of the worst, would be the worst if ariete isnt included.

[Master_Teaz]

@Fernando alonso

horrible armor all-round

nor really any worse than other NATO MBTs until you talk about the breech, but afaik it is missing some armour in places (turret roof and breech iirc), and the ERA should be better IIRC

@Fernando alonso

doesnt have spall liners on the sides of the hull which makes no sense

i don’t believe it does IRL either, the only missing spall liner i’m aware of is that of the Lower Frontal plate

@Fernando alonso

reload is alr,

5s for 4 rounds, before becoming poor (6-6.5s or so out of ready rack iirc), when Abrams, merk, Ariete, all reload in 5s for a number of rounds in the teens

@Fernando alonso

the “top” shell is one of the worst if I remember

its one of the worst, though the Leclerc and Oplot get worse shells

its also the Slowest top tier shell

It is buggered by Gaijin’s implementation of maps, mechanics and general gameplay but the challenger 2 is met with real issues IRL and there isn’t much that can be done to rectify this

[Morvran]

@Master_Teaz

i don’t believe it does IRL either, the only missing spall liner i’m aware of is that of the Lower Frontal plate

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uKfLG2d5jfoW

@Fernando alonso

I dont understand gaijins mentality, the challenger 2

Player stats. Anyone that has grinded through the tree and dealt with things like APDS and no APHE are probably better than most. As a result CR2s stats look good on paper, but anyone with half a brain can see its far weaker than most.

[Kobes-Kamov]

@Master_Teaz

i don’t believe it does IRL either, the only missing spall liner i’m aware of is that of the Lower Frontal plate

It does have hull side spall liners

[luque13]

If CR2 and other NATO tanks were modelled correctly Russia would have the joint worst tanks in game.
Now as Russia is one of Gaijins largest player bases this is unacceptable.
Gaijin make concessions to allow the Leopard 2 and M1 tanks to be on the level of the T-80/90 tanks.
again US and German markets are the more lucrative.

Simply put CR2, Merkava, Leclerc, Type 10 cannot be better than the Russian tanks. Despite being superior in the real world.