the values are differnet where. the damn model shows it as having the exact same defense the values they show us are the exact same for teh composites xD
as i said the challanger 2 stat card says 130mm of armour of the front of the hull, the CR1 says 80MM.
The tank museum talks about this, even revisited it in a tank chat that the T72 could not penetrate the CR1 frontally in desert storm. so the mk2 must have had the upgraded?
whered u pull that from?
Challenger Mk.2 was a name for a potential CR1 upgrade offered by Vickers, I don’t recall if it was later renamed to CR2 or if that was a slightly more intensive upgrade, I’d have to double check the book. But the re-use of names definitely doesn’t help.
The intended values spreadsheet that occasionally gets included in bug report responses/it’s fixed blogs.
you can also check by going into protection analysis with a dart.
WHY do they not just include this within the damn game and show us it as is. Not having visual stuff like the Xray be wrong. Though technically im not wrong saying they ahve the exact same Composite layout in game.
but thank you for the extra information. I wont remove my other comments so others can see it all and find the information youve shown as well. Appreciate that
L27A1 Pen difference
yeah you’re right about layout, when it comes to composites the effectiveness can be changed to whatever is needed to meet the intended values. the ~320mm NERA on the LFP has a pretty poor modifier (you can find them in the datamine but its a bit of a pain)
edit: the most recent sheet I saw, it will be outdated in terms of vehicles and maybe some intended values have changed, but it’s the best i have at the moment Защищённость ОБТ - Google Drive
we shouldnt have to go through all this hassle though just to get the basic information on the armour of the stuff we are using tbh
Yeah I think ill need to go re look at the data mine stuff
edit: do you know what is sad. go test out the very first APFSDS in the game on the CR2 man, it can be penned and killed frontally by stuff from teh damn 50s xD
Yeah it’s completely BS to keep us down. Totally intentional on their part, the game isn’t historical so it’s a total laugh they want us to find information to buff tanks which are classified.
100 percent agreed. even when they do have the sources and evidence
The Cheiftains are missing half their kit and The L15A5 round for example.
even look at air.
The javaline renowned for breaking the sound barrier in london, cant go over 0.92 mach.
Tornado F3 model wasnt right for years ( not sure if they fixed it)
FGR2 and FG1 missing hteir historical loadouts.
Hunter F6 being massively over BRd.
The Tornado GR4 having its brimstones nerfed before it even released.
etc etc etc.
the challanger 2s are some of my favourite modern MBTs, yet in game they genuinely make me hate the game.
Yeah same, I was so hyped for Challenger 1 in 2018, but it’s been down hill for the British tree ever since. I remember we used to have things pretty good, the chieftains relative for the time were really good in game, HESH actually worked as well as it should which I guess they didn’t like.
Gonna have to see how they massacre the Typhoon next if the December leaks are true, good thing is if they offend us with botching that they also offend the Germans and they won’t be happy XD.
the german mains are never happy man.
TBH the cheiftains rn are in a pretty fun place to use, the Khalid n MK10 no longer see abrams and leo2s and what not. ANd the mk5 and 3 are still pretty strong at 8.7
Lets also not forget that the challanger 2 past the first 5 shots is the slowest reloading top tier MBT as well ! xD
edit : after some testing, past the ready rack rounds without an expert crew its well over 8 seconds per round to reload. which is absolutely fabricated numbers.
Im absolutely sorry but what in the fucking christ is the challanger 2s LFP armour? it can literally be penned by world war two 57mm cannons. its touted as one of the most defensive and survivably MBTs and yet in game it can be penned by a T-34-57 OR any long 75mm and one tapped.
LFP weakpoint is unfortunately one of Britain’s intentional design decisions when making the CR2, it really is just a slab of steel unless the applique is applied.
IRL at least the majority of tank hits are on the upper two thirds of the front profile, so it’s not much of an issue there. The game exaggerates things with how easily you can pinpoint hit areas using mouse aim.
the tank has survived multiple hits, and was it an RPG29 In real life that only injured the driver.
If that was just a slab of steel, it would be a ridiculously weak tank that is incredibly easy to destroy. Which goes against all known information about the tank.
a 57mm tank round from the 1940s should not be able to break through the frontal plate of a “modern” MBT
Right, the thing is that the CR2 IRL had the applique composite when it was hit. In game, it’s less protected there (composite screen protection modifiers are pathetic) and sometimes you’re not even equipped with the applique armor. So it’ll feel like the LFP is a giant vacuum that pulls ammo towards it. With the applique, it should protect you from almost all autocannon ammo at the BR. Even the high power 57mm russian darts.
i understand that the applique armour was mounted in real life and did stop alot.
I still will not just sit here and believe that the LFP of a challanger 2 is just steel xD again, if it was a small section then maybe, but it is genuinely , what? about 30 percent of the front of it?
The fact a world war two tank can penetrate and destroy the thing is just not right at all. and as you said considering the Challanger 2E, BN, and 3TD do not even get access to the basic dorchester pack, can and will die in one shot to a ww2 medium.
The Chally 2/3 are both missing their lower front plate spall liners
The LFP is always going to be a weak spot for high pen rounds, but at least if we got those spall liners the pens would be less damaging
All the available evidence we have suggests that the lower plate is indeed just steel.
well i cant find any reliable sources of my own so its safe to say its either steel or unknown so steel xD
again tho, ww2 mediums can take out teh top tier of britain easily which is quite stupid tbh