Lets also not forget that the challanger 2 past the first 5 shots is the slowest reloading top tier MBT as well ! xD
edit : after some testing, past the ready rack rounds without an expert crew its well over 8 seconds per round to reload. which is absolutely fabricated numbers.
Im absolutely sorry but what in the fucking christ is the challanger 2s LFP armour? it can literally be penned by world war two 57mm cannons. its touted as one of the most defensive and survivably MBTs and yet in game it can be penned by a T-34-57 OR any long 75mm and one tapped.
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LFP weakpoint is unfortunately one of Britain’s intentional design decisions when making the CR2, it really is just a slab of steel unless the applique is applied.
IRL at least the majority of tank hits are on the upper two thirds of the front profile, so it’s not much of an issue there. The game exaggerates things with how easily you can pinpoint hit areas using mouse aim.
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the tank has survived multiple hits, and was it an RPG29 In real life that only injured the driver.
If that was just a slab of steel, it would be a ridiculously weak tank that is incredibly easy to destroy. Which goes against all known information about the tank.
a 57mm tank round from the 1940s should not be able to break through the frontal plate of a “modern” MBT
Right, the thing is that the CR2 IRL had the applique composite when it was hit. In game, it’s less protected there (composite screen protection modifiers are pathetic) and sometimes you’re not even equipped with the applique armor. So it’ll feel like the LFP is a giant vacuum that pulls ammo towards it. With the applique, it should protect you from almost all autocannon ammo at the BR. Even the high power 57mm russian darts.
i understand that the applique armour was mounted in real life and did stop alot.
I still will not just sit here and believe that the LFP of a challanger 2 is just steel xD again, if it was a small section then maybe, but it is genuinely , what? about 30 percent of the front of it?
The fact a world war two tank can penetrate and destroy the thing is just not right at all. and as you said considering the Challanger 2E, BN, and 3TD do not even get access to the basic dorchester pack, can and will die in one shot to a ww2 medium.
The Chally 2/3 are both missing their lower front plate spall liners
The LFP is always going to be a weak spot for high pen rounds, but at least if we got those spall liners the pens would be less damaging
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All the available evidence we have suggests that the lower plate is indeed just steel.
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well i cant find any reliable sources of my own so its safe to say its either steel or unknown so steel xD
again tho, ww2 mediums can take out teh top tier of britain easily which is quite stupid tbh
That’s the way the tank was designed unfortunately.
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Yeah i got the 3TD finally, im goign back to my chieftains xD
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The thing is even WW2 tank guns are quite powerful, a lot of modern tanks can be destroyed by hits to the LFP by tank guns and AT weapons. Abrams and Leopard are exceptions but even they can be destroyed by modern tank guns to the lower plate. You have to remember that tank armour either stops the round or fails, if it can’t stop the round there is no point of heavy armour and you have wasted the weight when you could have reinforced the turret or another area.
When you factor in the tactics used in deployments of Challenger they play around the LFP being a weak spot firing behind cover and using their theatre entry standard kit. For all intents and purposes there is not really a reason to think that the armour was much upgraded over the chieftains for the LFP as there is no Chobham armour.
Oh i know the old guns are still powerful, a 76mm round is still a 76mm round just cause its off an old tank doesnt change that ( yes im aware it makes the difference comparitively to modern 76mm rounds i mean in teh context of it hitting a weak point).
I just did genuinely think they would of focused on having a bit more armour to it.
However as you stated they dont go into perations without the armour packages thus somewhat mitigating the LFP weakness.
TBH For warthunder im at the point id prefer to see more additions like the 70s and 80s models of tanks, chieftain upgrades, various pattons etc. over just more top tier. top tier is a right headache especially seeing as were nearly at current modern equipment e.g challanger 3 TD for example ( i know were missing a lot of stuff from the early 2000s and what not for ground), it has become increasingly difficult for both us the players, and bug reports, to make effective, accurate bug reports, and its difficutl as well for gaijin to actually not only get licenses for all this, but to accurately portray the vehicles without divulging secrete military equipment.
This image is from my latest bug report about the ERA cages being a total mess. The TES kits are probably far underperforming in the game tbh. The steel backplate isn’t even modelled for it.
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WW2 guns can take out the Chally 2 from the front (without adons)
However, they can also take out the:
- M1 Abrams
- Leclerc
- Ariete
- Type 10
- VT4
- ZTZ99
- etc…
Frontally, all you need is over around 150mm of pen with APHE. The Challenger is not exclusive in having a weak lower front plate, it is an intended design feature of many vehicles.
The main issue is the the addon armour for the Challenger 2 (and Chally 1) underperforms a lot
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can kill it with sub 150mm pen APHE
No please don’t give me flashbacks of the ASPRO HMT
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Honestly I’d rather see the CR2s drop down to 11.3 as they are not really top tier material. Weakest round at top tier, small ready rack, poor mobility and armour. The CR2E, BN & CR3TD can remain where they are, but the base CR2, 2F, TES and OES can go down .3 BR at the moment. Until they at least fix some things on it.
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isnt this the exact reason why its classified as variable thickness armor?
I think you may be right actually, it is strange that it only lists it as variable thickness armour for Challenger 1 mk3. Every other tank with the kit just lists it as 10mm.
Effective thickness is listed as 13mm so I think the 30mm plate isn’t actually modelled. If I’m eyeballing it right, there should be around 40mm of armour there if you take the 10mm value as a base and then add that 30mm plate in front of it.
It could be more so that the Challenger 2s lack the variable thickness modifier actually. It’s hard to tell what it actually means though.
This piece is called turret_08_top_dm in game files, does seem that the CR2 is not modelled as variable thickness, but the part is correct on the CRIII.
CRIII
CR2
Heres a clearer picture of the armour model:
Roughly 87mm LoS on the thicker section:
