I guess now considering that drones like Lancet make tank armour meaningless and that they are so cheap we need to put DragonFire into production.
Gotta have a detection system trained through machine learning to detect motion and shoot down drones I guess. Imagine a land based DragonFire system SPAA for armoured and infantry units, lasers and other types of hard kill APS are the only thing that would have saved that tank imo. RIP birds.
Be wary of proclaiming that armour is meaningless. We’ve had this merry go round before…
HEAT - armour is dead. Until ERA and spaced armour becomes a thing.
The ATGM - armour is dead. Until they develop tactics to adapt.
Long Rod APFSDS - armour is dead. Until Chobham and true composite armour is wheeled out.
We are now at the latest round of counter and counter-counter. Same as the last one. Probably the same attack v defence argument that has raged since the middle ages. ‘The crossbow has made a Knight’s armour useless! Allow me to introduce you to chainmail…’
I’m still cynical of any claims the Russians make about CR2 - especially since their idea of proof is a blurry and badly cut video showing several different tanks (seriously, one of them the cupola swaps.sides on the turret) and bits of metal mostly hidden under some trees…
Drones are great, but you cant attack with them, they are part of a combined arms system.
The Tank will always be needed for offensive operations, it just needs EW support to nullify drone threat.
Lancet needs the recon drone, remove that drone Lancet is not effective to the ranges its currently operating from.
Both sides in the conflict have failed miserably at scouting and reconnaissance, hunting drones and drone operators and anti tank crews.
Lancets only have like 250mm of armour penetration, thats less than an RPG7
I suppose to be generous - if you’re dealing with an aimed/guided munition - you’d probably be steering it towards hatches and engine decks (sub 250mm protection). Not particularly easy if you’re trying to get a moving target - but then again an RPG isn’t exactly a paragon of accuracy either!
It’s hard to tell the pitch and position that the lancet hit the challenger at but I’d bet that if this Chally had the TES kit it would have survived a side on attack given lancets small payload. The other thing I’ll add here is that the certain YouTuber believes that blowout panels is the save all, god like invention. It is good, but it will not save a tank from needing large amounts of repair work as we have seen with Abrams. Also if the lancet is contacting side on where the crew is, blow out panels or not, that crew is either badly injured or dead. I do agree that blow out panels are better than no blow out panels but in todays 360 degrees of threat the crew of a tank is more vulnerable than ever regardless of where you place the ammo.
I only say the armour is meaningless in the sense that attacks from the top and side make the actual 60 degree frontal arc of armour irrelevant, which is where the lancet must have hit. Obviously Dorchester would still be superior to the lancets 250mm of pen but if it isn’t hit then it is irrelevant. I think what I said may have been hyperbolic.
The future of warfare is shaping up to be drone based though, at least for current armies who lack sufficient size for proper combined arms with EW. Like luque13 said it needs EW support to nullify drones, but in lack of that only an APS could have avoided this event. I can only assume to meet CR3s 50 round requirement it will also probably include rounds within the hull despite blow out panels.
Tanks that could meet the same fate of the CR2 in that video include all T series, Leclerc, Leopard, Ariete. I do think in some cases the pressurised water and armoured bins would prevent immediate explosion but obviously this penetration was catastrophic.
Turns out it was Lancet 3.
It’s a Challenger-2 belonging to the 82nd Brigade.
Lancet Izdeliye-53 (or Z-53 in some RU docs) was used in the strike
The 53 has automatic target and tracking and the warhead is stated to be 3kg
There are no non-Russian sources to validate at this point - I’ll await Oryx (who are usually pretty good at authenticating losses). The video chops several tanks together in different landscapes so the evidence is pretty shaky.
Until then I’m filing it in the ‘we got that HIMARS that was sitting on the tenth story of a tower block’ category of claims…
There a video of Lancet hitting a tank that is photographed as destroyed.
HIMARS on the 10th floor…hmmm I didn’t see that claim.
Both sides have lied during the conflict.
We now have footage of a KA-52/Mi-28 engaging a CR2 from the side I will link it
We have no way of knowing if the tank is disabled or if it continued to function. It’s a shame we didn’t give Ukraine the OES/TES kits for the CR2
Well it didn’t explode, thats a plus
Couldn’t find a link to the tenth floor although I will have another parse through the google of things - but how about this gem from a while ago.
Your posted video is from TASS - which is basically the Comical Ali arm of the Russian MOD along with RIA Novosti. If they claimed the sky was blue, most impartial observers would look out their windows just to double-check. They’re that level of credible…
I don’t rattle off the above as a tirade against you or anyone claiming a CR2 has been knocked out. I’m just mindful that of the two sides - one side does have previous form for coming up with some pretty spectacular claims more so than the other… usually debunked some time later once the dust has settled.
Anyhow - I’m taking this waaaaaay off-topic so I’ll get back to the subject at hand.
Can Gaijin give my Challenger 3 Demo back it’s engine power please? I went back to playing it after an appreciable gap and discovered they’d nerfed the mobility (again).
Why did the challenger toss turret? I thought it doesn’t have he ammo
Propellant charges are combustible
They have HESH. The crew interview comments about CR2s in Ukraine not having HE ammo was in reference to not having a fragmenting round like DM11 or 3OF26 that are suitable for engaging open trenches rather than hardened fortifications
Damn, almost 10,000 comments and nothing has changed. That’s just downright depressing especially judging a select few of you guys have done the developers work for them (digging up docs, helping fix lazy ass spaghetti code) .
The moment it hits part 2, someone tag smin asking when the next dev post for the challenger 2 is going to be
I’ve been getting ready all of my garbage CR2 diagrams to post when we get Part 2.
At some point I need to update the bug list and the main history topic. But yes that would be perfect
i think he is just trying to trigger yall, also afaik DM11 can penetrate hard fortifications due to the anti structure tip and the programmable fuse allowing it to explode after penetrating