I know that SACLOS is not realiable at all. I just wanted to emphasise that the new helis are better protected against any type of SPAA than the previous helicopters ever were.
Welcome to real world combat 101:
Your main objective in ground combat is not actually fighting the enemy, it’s engaging the most threatening and high value target in your combat zone.
Your combat zone should realistically (in war thunder) 3 light air defense system, and at least 2 static short range air defense systems, in our cases, something like the SAMP or SLAMRAAM as you’re probably not gonna have the BUK on your team.
Constantly having a working team of Combat Air Patrol, SAM installation, and ground troops is the only effective way to combat CAS on both teams. Even then, modern tactics with even the most basic of weapons activates a totally different type of warfare.
(Please don’t lock my account or ban me mods, this is just an example, not a political statement about the war) In Ukraine, both Russia and Ukraine operate SU-25 and Mi-24/35 helicopters, they both use the landscape of fields and windbreaks to keep out of line of sight of their enemy, on both sides. They both stay low, use pop up tactics, and strike using CCRP methods. The helicopters have been seen doing low collective pullback maneuvers to launch S-8 rockets at installations, while Su-25 have been using popup tactics with all types of bombs and rockets.
In modern warfare, these long range weapons aren’t used for targets that don’t hold massive strategic importance, singular vehicles or tanks, but focus more on more costly assets like Ships, SAM sites, and bunkers. But in the light of war thunder, it doesn’t work that way.
There are counters, so either encourage your team to counter, or counter at your own discretion.
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Game should be the one encouraging this.
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Spike and PARS are very weak. You need several to kill an SPAA truck and MBTs are almost impossible to kill, except you fire 3 or even 4. Sometimes even a BMP hull survives a PARS hit. Its a whole league lower than LMUR. You just have 8 ATGMs and the range requires you often to leave the heliport area. So no quick up and downs to restock and to flood the ground maps with endless ATGM rapid fire. Mi-28 just needs to hoover up and down without even moving off a single meter from their pad.
Pars warhead is too weak and the attack pattern is programmed in a way that they always slam into the side or fron armor. They don’t have this agressive top down of LMUR and others.
I’ve read IRL LMURs use in actual conflicts is restricted to strategic assets. Like there are reports LMUR engaged a bridge in a certain country or buildings. Its likely not used vs single vehicles. Its just not the right choice to include it into a videogame with 1km x 1km maps.
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I very well know that pars and especially spikes are much less effective vs ground targets than lmurs (which are one hit kill) but
this is literally exactly how pars and spike helis play. You just need 2 per target, sometimes more and you can shoot and be effective from closer to the battlefield because you can dive quicker. how far away from the helipad you are playing is personal preference (safety vs flooding the battlefield) and for me mainly dependant on how many planes/threats are up and how many players are left.
Why not? An aced uht (cant check mine atm can’t access the game) has something like an 8 or 10 second reload? Is that good for gameplay? I dont think so, but using that you can flood the battlefield with f&f atgms the same way the mi28nm and other nations can now for what? 4 years now? And remember: for most of the times is was practically impossible to shoot down incoming f&f atgms.
I think it is off balance in general, the new helis just make it worse. And i love flying all kinds of helis for years now. but now its just spamming f&f ordinance and aa spamming their missiles desparately trying to counter a whole screen of threats (in the new spaa control display)
even JAGM doenst loft as high as LMUR despite all evidence showing that it should
it seems that gaijin cant make ATGMs loft properly unless it is a russian missile, because every other countrys missiles that should loft do not do so anywhere near as much as they should
this is particularly noticeable on hellfires because it has time to target of its top attack profile without lofting resulting in a much lower average speed and impact speed which makes the missiles pull very sluggishly
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shh don’t say that or the fanboys of lmur will showup and say that that is total bs …
Wiping off entire battlefield while all you can do is suck it up becuase of “reasons”
So 3 highly skilled players did a good job in a match against an average American team.
I don’t see anything happening because you’re omitting information that could help form a more accurate conclusion.
AH-64E and Z-10ME would have to join the Mi-28NM for any BR changes of course.
ah yes, “skilled” I bet at least 2 of them were just flying high above the close heli pad spamming LMURs and rearming
the significantly lower damage on their missiles and unrealistically low lofting make them less oppressive
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It should indeed
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They get twice the amount of missiles to compensate.
yes and it still averages to less kills per sortie
and number doesnt matter as much as some people seem to think because the average MMI28 pilot is flying right over the helipad, so they can re arm very quickly
All of those can be flying above their helipad, spam missiles and rearm. Spamming more missiles also help with draining AAs from their missiles as well.
yes but in that situation double the missiles carried =/= twice the missiles fired because by the time you finish launching all of your missiles the mi28 can already be rearming
You need a radar homing AA to bypass magical laser defence systems but guess what which nation has the longest range and biggest boom radar homing AA??
Not really if you send 2 per target. You’ll get kills and also make AA’s life harder by putting more missiles in the air.
or just remove all the FnF munitions from helicopters
these are just no fun
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I actually suggest the RP to ground research be the same as if you had killed a plane in Air RB, not only will it help the grind, it is a massive incentive.
Looking at the score… the enemy team lost, long before the first Mi-28 spawned… but that is just my opinion
Its probably true but the effectiveness of all of these 3 long range ir atgm spammers makes snowballing matches even easier, especially how safe you are from a lot of the newly added spaas (and not a lot of people have enough slots to also have the older saclos aa in their lineups as well)
IMO its just not good for gameplay because it makes the rush in like a careless monkey and hope to get two quick kills strategy somehow even more viable and rewards that -if successfull- with opressing the whole map, limiting movement and stopping the whole enemy team from gaining further ground with too much safety from ground threats. If you let the enemy team take too much ground for just 10 seconds, theres soon 2 of these helis up (no matter which side, US, chinese or russian) which you can only -somewhat- reliably counter if you yourself have enough sp to spawn a plane with tv guided atgms. ofc unless they play careless and climb too high and get shot by saclos spaa or a lucky irist or something. But i wouldnt want to bet on that happening. i also wouldnt want to grind a new nation nowadays not having reliable spaa (yeah gl, japan, gb, china or sweden) or not having planes yet. it just makes even more people leave matches knowing that theres no way of getting back on the map on the ground at all without immediately having 2 of these missiles going for you