So it is ISSUE, but not “that” big… Well what can I say, that’s why this post was made: CAS is issue, some guys enjoying with this issue so I’m asking for mode so others could enjoy to.
What you mean by “probably more important number(s)”?? why ground to ground kills is more important in this case?? That’s how it should be, ground should fight ground.
This data was from 2017 i believe, so back then online was 4x low, no helicopters, no guided weapons, no fireforget missiles. That I’m trying to say is what, even without this “bonuses” cas was superior, lastly even developers confirmed Ballance change towards CAS.
Looks like CAS really is BIG issue!
Respect man!!
Only one moderator who said that (or at least only one i have seen), it’s annoying. CAS maybe not always kills you, but dissables vehicles and other tank gets you, that’s why we asking for TO mode.
i’d suspect this is because most topics derail into people just insulting each other. Tank-Only claiming that anyone who plays CAS is a coward, Comb.Arms claiming that CAS is balanced and its a skill issue (a skissue, if you would).
Most arguments on this forum surrounding CAS devolves like this. All the people making valid arguments get lost in the swarm of insults and screaming children.
*Worth pointing out that this happens on both sides, emphasis on both. Every CAS thread has hundreds of comments just of people insulting the other side.
Given that ground fire is only half of the means a team has to attack enemy aircraft with and not all of even the ‘dedicated’ countermeasure class (SPAAs) are dedicated to attacking enemy aircraft (‘wannabe TD’ use of SPAAs is common), those results are unsurprising. The people who think that figure is something to tout are either confused, naive or taking the data out of context.
As a fuller look at the data shows, aircraft did not even yield a 1:1 exchange ratio. For all their costs (SP costs, opportunity costs (for GFs grinding)) and capability sacrifices (especially capturing).
When you took a serious look at the 2017 data, CAS hype fell apart. (Even in 2017, this was known.)
Having played in 2017, I saw numerous teams lose firsthand because of the emptiness of CAS hype…the myth didn’t measure up.
As I mentioned before, a common strategy in 2017 to encourage enemy teams to aircraft…then immediately kill those enemies with SPAAs/defending fighters; GFs’ SP costs were higher then (SP costs for GFs were lowered in 2018) and so a person who’d done little with their first two spawns (regardless of type) was often thrown out of the match entirely by their second demise unless they had done average or better than average.
If the trigger queue idea was implemented (a la the night battles toggle), the two wouldn’t necessarily have to compete:
The RB GFs matchmaker would function with the player pool just as it has now…but when enough ‘opt-in’ players are around in the +/- 1.0 BR range to make a TO match, the matchmaker could do so. In theory, this could work entirely in parallel with RB GFs…though it might still need some split BRs (as we have now between modes) and/or rewards changes for incentives.
I would agree with that…I’ve always been onboard with seeing a viable TO realized and see the toggle avenue as the best way to see it get into the game.
The biggest hurdle for TO right now seems to be advocacy…for all of the rattling heard about TO, there doesn’t seem to be much effort in actually pressing for its future. It seems to just be the grass that’s greener on the other side but nobody wants to actually take the road to go there.
All sorts of talk but no real action…not even a proof of concept rally. After the bigger part of a decade, that’s not a hopeful sign.
Yes–it’s deeply unfortunate to see that happen when it does.
I’m proud to set an example by focusing on information-centric posts for intellectual discourse rather than rage posts pouting over the latest defeat. Fits are hardly the basis for sensible discussion.
Talking like you aren’t that guy, who can’t understands simpliest data and argues over it for last 50 comments, while at least 5 people explaining him.
The whole game design is pure nonsense. In toptier i am forced to battle on maps thier size is like a pond viewed from the air. CAS has only to watch at a fraction of the whole area around it and can aim at 20km 4 to 6 tagets and leave before getting even in range of counterfire. if we would have relistic scales of a battlefield CAS would have actually prove skills to spot targets that are scattered in a 3 to 4 km radius and not like a cloth of mattle scrap on a scrapyard. its bejond me why they dont allow a tank only mode. CAS is redicoulously overpowerd. The SPAA able to kill has to fight more with a bad map design rather than actually the planes. Where ever you look trees trees trees trees bushes bushes bushes. Not to mention once u r forced to spawn a SPAA its too late anyways because while the team seeks cover the tanks of the enemy lock down your spawn and keep your SPAA on spot like a sitting duck. Also BR12 tanks ahve to fight br14 jets that can easylie kille 4 to 6 players in a single aproach on the ground and then clear the sky of helis and jets afterwards. Gajin is such a disapointment when it comes to balance. i dont know any other company that is releasing monthly stuff that allways breaks the game in one direction. Insteat of balancing thier aditions, like ok lets add f16 and add German IRIS-T, American MIM-104 Patriot or whatever is capable. No nation in game has any SPAA besides Russia (of course) that is near BR12 or BR13. And dont lets talk about the implementation back then of the Pantsir that was ligh years ahead of any other SPAA. Gajin is just bending us over every month despite all the shout outs, complains and ideas players have. Its all about business rather than costumer treatment…
If most kills are by ground units…there is NO CAS dominance…CAS gets a little over 10% of all kills. Ground combat decides MOST matches…by far.
Yes…there are CASES where a well timed ground attack changes the outcome…but they are rara…
Most matches the best GROUND TEAM wins…aircraft only add some kills…usually to the team that is winning anyway…
And BTW…aircraft are also a way for everyone to get a few extra kills, either with SPAAs or fighters (that counts for the tank you were on)
The possible problem is that GRB needs players that prefer to stay on tanks to work…if everyone is there to get on a plane it leads to frustration…
It is actually simple…from 16 players about 10 are kept on tanks…and supposedly those are mostly tank players…but if they leave for TO then you have 10 players that prefer planes playing tanks…
Not saying i dont understand the problem of tankers…just pointing out the “complete” issue…
I have an idea to help improve survivability from cas at higher tiers a little bit.
Gaijin have already crossed the rubicon with the KH-38MT, therefore it seems only reasonable for all top tier spaa to have smoke grenades, regardless of whether they actually have them in real life.
If you’re in something like the ITO, and someone fires a heat seeker at you then you’re just done. There is no counterplay, you can’t hide and you’re not fast enough to escape.
CAS is dominant in a way that ground units often times have no real counter to them, so people will obviously get frustrated. If this isn’t problematic just because the % of kills isn’t that high, then we can easily place a few 12.0 MBTs down at 10.0, as I’m sure their total % of kills won’t be that high anyways and the situation would be even better, as they can actually get killed by other 10.0 vehicles.
If people abandon GRB for TO then we have our answer, the community as a whole actually might not like getting killed in a totally unfair and borderline unsportsmanlike conduct.
ARB being a fighter-only mode at higher tiers don’t help either, so it would need to go through a complete overhaul to make it better for CAS.
Seriously?? In battle we have 4-5x more ground units, of course they doing more kills, anyway, that’s not case here. 1 CAS unit is more effective, then ground it means at least CAS isn’t balanced + ground has nothing to defend themselves that’s problem.
Winning team CAS don’t leaves chance for loosing side to come back, they literally clearing everything on spawn (and in my opinion, that’s what rises 1 death leaver numbers, why respawn if I’m getting bombed right away… At least that’s why i play 1 spawn and many others who have lineups) god knows how many matches my team lost because of enemy CAS, simply get few scouting or homepoint then + death bonus SP that’s it. So doesn’t matter team wins or loses, if there’s at least 3 middle skilled pilots, they have victory in pocket.
Upper was many talking about how broken top tier CAS is, but i think 3rd-4th tier CAS is much scary with sloth gun handling AAs against it, + open top and can be effectively 400-500m range, + slow fire rate and tiny magazine.
Don’t agree, you have to collect enough SP to spawn plane, so most players will stay on ground. Nothing will change, want plane _ it’s easy enough, only few assist.
You can hide on some maps while on others you’re a sitting duck.
Giving smokes to AAs doesn’t really solve anything, as you’ll just smoke yourself off and frantically try to evade the missiles, all the while several other missiles are going for your team.
Currently CAP is by far the best counter to CAS and until that changes, ground units will continue to act as 2nd class citizens in their own mode. We need much better AAs in higher tiers that can actually reach usability of an M247 at 9.0, which is amazing against both planes and helicopters of it’s own BR.
Smoke launcher can cover your front, but not above. Anyway CAS can drop bomb in smoke aaaannnd ssstiiillll undisputed all BRs champ gets kiiilll ( with Bruce Buffer voice.
Could’ve. I’ve had very productive conversations w/ people regarding CAS in GRB and the creation of TO. It just seems like many people on these forums like to complain and try to change other people’s minds, but not be open to others changing theirs- which just ends up devolving into insults, because both realise things aren’t going their way.
It helps significantly against IR missiles. It’s not going to save against everything, but it will help against the flood of IR missiles and every little helps.
Unfortunately, but even that sucks. It costs 650~ SP to spawn w/ Fox 3s, 550-600SP w/ Fox 1/2s, etc.
This especially. However now we have the problem of certain munitions outranging even the new systems. Many missiles can launch out of range and just waste all the SPAA’s missiles, one of which is the Kh-38ML- probably the hardest missile to track and evade.