Cannons doing too much damge

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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1579

which you tried to justify as me being inexperienced, and also you did pull my stats to accuse of being a german main, which in your world of dillusion must mean Im bad am I right? Because it was to confirm your “assumption”.

Sure man I get it, back in they you were chewed alive by axis players.

If you are the more experienced player then tell me IN in-game terms, how does this system benefit air battles as a whole. which means all classes of aircraft, somethin your friend was more than willing to let them rot away.

3 RP left to spade B7A2 (New 20mm mod), needed 1 victory for my bp task and I needed to kill 1 last strike plane.

Dove on it and achieved the first one, I already got bored of samey fighter to fighter combat.

Is it my fault engagements are so dumbed down I literally find fun in diving blindy on the first enemy I see so I can experience some thrill of a furball? I never been to them a lot, maybe it is fun being so brainless!

I want to go on statcard, plane by plane and see that I like to spade aircraft, those +400 pages of aircraft are not for show. And let me tell you, the differences in airframes are barely felt.
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Monthly stats? It was me looking for a different experience, which now lead to me playing a lot more strike aircraft, bombers and even just SPAA on tank battles.

Unlike mr. Fighters must rule only and only! Because I don’t a see damn fucking strike or bomber in both of your cards that isn’t the usual half-fighter breed. Maybe that’s why your cards are so clean, focused on the one aspect statshark tracks as positive.

I don’t care for +8.0 aircraft, my fun is below those BRs.

Differences in playstyle, right now they are pretty shallow. why? Because people don’t like to learn it seems, it’s all grind and grind and grind, Did you remember you need to have fun?

And still, I play like ass (because I don’t try anymore), I don’t know TTs past 9.3, yet all of my points about how a rework in cannon damage would benefit WT still stand, not touched.

It was my point, Because I don’t play sim, I don’t sweat my ass off and I try to have fun with as many aircraft as possible makes me “clueless”.

Meanwhile both of you, barely see WT as a sidegrade, you see how it has a fuckton of planes and you decided “They must be dumbed down”.

WT at this moment is an ocean with the depth of a puddle

Also both of you don’t have monthly data.

1580

it wouldnt though

1581

how so?

It makes aspects like armor, EFS, AP rounds, differences in filler, shell types and even possible future addition like fuel fire systems have a tad bit more relevancy

What did I miss?

1582

why is that better for gameplay

1 Like
1583

It allows for more variables to come into play, which because we are locked to real life designs means that they eventually balance themselves out.

For example

The La-7 and La-7B-20’s damage output feels exactly the same despite BR difference, when in reality not only does the La-7B-20 have 1 extra cannon, it also equips B-20s instead of shvaks, thus also lead to an increase in firerate, but it also has lower ammo count per cannon, needing extra discipline.

That is one example of many.

But it doesn’t limit itself to aircraft only, even rounds of the same cannon are differentiated

Both Type 99 and hispano 404 have more explosive packed rounds in their belts options, yet a lot of players don’t know this and in extremes cases avoided them even (Type 99 hef not found on the full explosive “tracers” belt)

Akan M/41 and M/45 have an enormous firerate difference, yet A21 /J21A-2 feel almost the same as J21A-1.

Yak-9P’s different armament options don’t make a difference since 2 20mm cannons already sweep most enemies before the 23mm or 37mm can shine, at best you see a cool fireball of an explosion.

A6M5 variant have differences in armor (hei is our most armored variant) but in reality it just makes it heavier for almost no upside since explosives will bypass said armor by ripping it in half instead of creating fragmentation the armor will stop in most cases unless very precise shots are made.

You make each plane more distinct and allow extra room for heavily armored attackers (outclassed completely by fast attackers) or extra big aircraft like bombers (fragmentation travels a set distance)

But if you feel like it need extra revision make me know, im just really pissed at percu and feetpics for basically dodging all points.

1584

This whole question is a red herring and if you had played the game when “muh bombers were relevant” you would understand that.

How does having bomber victory condition and bombers placed at ultra low BRs where they can very easily achieve that condition benefit the game? Was the game better when the Me.264 was at 3.7BR and guaranteed that even 3 on a team would basically be a win?

This system was in place for extremely low tiers for a long time as well which is how you end up with people who have 98% win rate in something like the F.222.2.

This was the last time bombers were “fun” and “relevant”…it just so happened it only applied to German bombers against Allied planes that would never climb to them in time to stop them from bombing the objectives and ending the game. This was an exciting gameplay loop no?

1585

why is that better for gameplay

1586

Heavily armored attacker seems to be doing fine here.

1587

You’ll be surprised to learn arcade is actually more attacker/bomber friendly, having actual ground objectives (instead of just one line of howitzers), respawns, and targets that actually warrant the use of a2g ordnance (like armored ai vehicles instead of, again, unarmored howitzers)

1 Like
1588

Great as that’s the way it should be, sadly as this thread shows however that’s not the norm, it shouldn’t be happening full stop and yet it happens with quite some consistency unfortunately.

As it should? But what it shouldn’t do is detonate in said cupola and send shrapnel backwards against all physics and nuke the entire crew. Or have a round detonate in the engine bay and also magically wipe out the crew. It was all manner of stupid and never should have been put to a vote.

This is a terrible metric, I possibly have the most playtime out of anyone here with an account older than most. My roots go back to Wings of Prey on the Ps3, does this mean you should immediately bow down to me and I’m always right?

People are far from perfect and these streamers will sweat bullets at the thought of actual balanced changes as it means they’ll actually have to work for their 10-0 gameplay videos.

1 Like
1589

If people just headon and headon an attacker.

And of course, in attackers forced into A2A roles

Yeah, makes engagements different. But if you don’t like you could have asked "can we rework the gunner camera so it isn’t 3-plane stabilized anymore?

Nowadays I totally get excited when I see a Be-6, Qing-6, h8k or g8n1, because it’s something different, I am rewarded for attacking blindspots or simply know predict their leads.

But currently I can just spray from ~1.5 km in a frontal attack and see them crumble away.

Or with the “heavily armored attacker” I can just fly up and see it stall because the ARMOR is pretty heavy and be left completely vulnerable because said armor won’t protect from the beefed up 20mm that I can land in any part of the wing or tail and win automatically, no need to even bother to aim at the pilot.

And is that a BR issue or a fundamental concept issue? IS a BR isn’t it?

When Percu said the pacific maps sucked. Was that a Map design issue OR a concept issue?

And no they were “win” conditions, because even if your enemy fullfilled all of them, you were forced on the BACKFOOT, forced to take more risks and play more aggresive. If you had the skill you can bypass completely and earn both, but your chances fall off because you didn’t use them earlier OR the enemy TEAM was better player by player.

Wow teamwork, somethin you decided to completely leave to rot instead of idk, fix tutorials, show what a radio wheel is to new players, teach basic aerial manouvers instead of simply take off, landing, bombing and firing.

1590

Same has ARB, those small AI units are common, but I talked about objectives as those stars that you fullfill and take a small chunk off, those are a rarity nowadays.

It is pretty fun in stalingrad to cover my attackers or even just do it myself after I survive the initial furball. Or even try to intercept those enemies when im on the other side

Norway, that runway is the only fact that will keep army planes from being forced carrier landings or just save up travel time for the other team.

1591

Tell me, is there a difference when you shoot at a Zero to an Il-2 with a 20mm?

Currently is that no difference is felt.

Even if Il-2 is barely able to fly thanks to that armor.

Let’s take another example.

Which shell from the Type 99 has more explosive filler?

A- The hef?

B- hef-T?

So should option A deal more damage? Yes, but currently it doesn’t

Or let’s look at the hispano 404

A- hei
B- hei-t

Same answer, same result, filler doesn’t matter.

And there many example I posted such as Yak-3s, J21s, La-7s, and the list keeps going.

There’s more paths to choose from and more playstyles you can enjoy without falling behind so much.

1 Like
1592

Just have a bomber task to off some ground NPCs. The second time in a row my Ju-88 just exploded in a blink of an eye. The whole damage mechanic is idiotic. WT air needs a total revamp. Damage models, ammunition damage, ordnance should be inert again. All ammunition should get realistic drag + falloff like german 20mm ammo. Ranged 1km hits in WW2 lol yes.

Its rediculous. Mouse aim + laser like trajectories (in most cases) + huge damage profile + your own bombs permanently set off by even small calibre ammo…its totally not fun. Its point n click and booom.

1593

Are you denying the reality of air RB where attackers and bombers are pretty much just along for the ride?

Even one of the strongest bombers, Ju 288, has the 3rd lowest winrate at its entire BR lol

There is a pinned topic about airfield AAA with almost 100k views and over 1000 replies, with most in agreement that airfield AAA is far too strong.
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Not counting what was on the old forum:
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not counting other topics which have since been merged into this one or locked and told to go to the main topic:

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And it took them how many years just to remove the forward airfield AAA? How many more to give SOME maps real AAA instead of the old hitscan AoE thing that just turns your entire plane yellow?

No sooner than 2035

No, you literally do not have enough games played for it to be statistically relevant.

You don’t understand how Air RB works, you only see how you WANT it to work and everything must conform to it. That is not the reality.

You do know that a fighter is very different from a bomber, right?

Previous 109 models like E-4 can outturn La-5s and Yaks. For a whole BR higher it’s a big downgrade in the options afforded to you.

it’s BORING

wow cool this guy can’t really do anything about me wooo what a good fight

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/jR76LbtCfOQ

https://youtu.be/GqgQp-1VgBo

cool story but that’s just a slightly different flavor of boredom

The Ho-5? Ho-5 is much worse lol

Doesn’t look like it.
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in order:

-untouched and its engine still has better efficiency at low thrust values than theoretical spaceship engines
-unchanged
-sure didn’t stop it from getting to 5.7
-unchanged
-was ahistorical for YEARS until the queue of bug reports finally got around to it
-unchanged
-only went up .3 very very recently
-was broken op for YEARS (and is still extremely good)
-still too low lol

I dunno about him, but I am certain I know more about you than aviation history.

And who are you to say I’m not a WT player?

cool

Hey how many variations of the Ki-43-II were there? Surely you’ll know this one by heart since you’re some kind of super aviation fan extraordinaire, right?

Is that what you think? lol

The stats are just a confirmation of what I already expect. Maybe you’ll get better opinions once you have more than 100 games in any one plane and can get at least 2 kills before dying - even when not trying very hard.

Players enjoy it, thus they will play air battles more. A lack of concern for gun damage will encourage them to try out other aircraft or nations now that they’re not hearing about Hisparkos doing no damage or whatever every other day; or starting a new tree only to find that their guns are ass and that’s not changing until Rank 6.

Why even bother then?

This fire was stopped by EFS

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Are you gonna tell me this was not felt? Also blacked wing that is still attached and flying lol

Meanwhile…

This is very difficult… in Simulator. Where you don’t have a computer constantly babysitting your plane and making it point exactly where you want.

Which is also where bombers and attackers can actually do their job since they can RESPAWN and shooting them down is much harder.

1594

Looks like the whole game suffers from this syndrome

3 Likes
1595

How does this make the game more fun

1596

You and your little world of allucinations.

They were buried because players LIKE YOU, can’t comprehend that “y’know maybe this plane the size on entire house may require a different philosophy to take down” Or “This plane covered head to toe in armor MAY need a different approach”

Maybe ground targets are meant to do something.

MAYBE War Thunder bothered to add them because they wanted them to offer alternate playstyles.

The fact you want these +500 aircraft to be left in tank battles and the barely pulsating sim scene shows that maybe the issue is your lack of perspective.

It is as flat as a pancake. At least I bother to get in the shoes of someone or simply keep my mouth shut.

Y’know who already suffers from this fate? helicopters and strike planes and bombers are real close.

Which I know it exists and I offered fixes like limiting ammo supplies for AA, making them use actual proyectiles

But I also clarified that an enemy using AA as a shield to push the ticket advantage they worked for and allow for some breathing room is a valid play that comes with a counter called “teamwork” 1-2 players keep watch and the others sweep AI or bases.

You are alone? You lost gg, you tried, luckily no max repair cost for you and I suppose plenty of SL in your bag, it’s not like you just only recieve rewards if you win.

But you need for WT to be 100% individual apparently.

Next time you complain about your teamates I want you to realize that’s what you protested for.

And you only have surface level knowledge of your opponents. Maybe because such a general issue needs more points of view?

AKA, how they fly and how many cannons they got.

You are guilty of this because you turned ARB into the depth of a quake match, maybe even less.

Instead of trying to look deeper you pointed your finger at a culprit and had it killed.

Never a
“Can devs revise this map?”
“Can devs rework gunner view?”
“Can devs rework airfield bombing?”
“Can devs add actual tutorials?”
“Can devs make certain revise why this plane doesn’t work?”

And said EFS only comes to play under very lucky conditions that is “not get by a 20mm explosive round”

I bet that came from a 50cal, the one armament that does require you to land on either spars, tanks, pilots or engines.

I can say a tank with a blacked out breach can still move so we must make it so each shot that penetrates kills it instantly.

“Players” the same people who will vote to lower the skill floor everytime to make it so they grind faster and basically skip entire ranks?

1 Like
1597

You actually have more cards to play with.

Imagine you only have chocolate flavour in the icecream shop.

TOP 3 flavours of OAT sure, but you can’t keep eating and not get bored.

Sometimes you may want some other food like chips and maybe even just swap the flavour a little bit.

1598

I’m not sure I would want to eat ice cream if it was like water at the bottom of a dumpster flavored