which also supports my point towards percu, he said armor isn’t needed yet if it wasn’t why did the Japanese produce armored Zeros and same with the fuel fire system (really hope to see it one day) Japan saw it and concluded it was needed and thus produced it, yet in WT standards it would simply be dead weight since apparently most aircraft came down by enormous structural failure from blasts only. Proves that AP rounds and fragments had such relevancy that these systems were made to avoid them.
Yeah, we invested in better sighting systems and radar gun sights. But then you’d need to consider the fact the M61 exists. Even when it was designed in .60 the idea of a high rate of fire was considered favorable. If that wasn’t the case, we would’ve just stuck with the colts.
The A6M2 had literally zero armour. No pilot armour, windscreen armour or protection for the engine itself. In comparison the Wildcat already had pilot armour, self sealing fuel tanks, an armoured windscreen and armoured plates that protected the oil radiators. Even Spitfires had armour for the pilot and plates protecting the fuel tanks as early back as 1942 I believe.
The Japanese with the Zero only introduced armoured windscreens in 1944… pilot armour had to wait until 1945 when it was far too late. The Zero did have very strong wings… but this is useless when the first burst killed the pilot or set the aircraft on fire, something they were famous for.
Japanese aircraft were in general (with some exceptions) somewhat flimsily built, some Nakajima aircraft would even crack just from aerobatics. It isn’t just the armour but the general construction that as mentioned was usually much lighter than allied designs.
Of course this doesn’t matter in War Thunder as one cannon round into anything will cause catastrophic damage.
They probably did feel that way until the Hellcat came online. I don’t think anyone here would want to take a Wildcat against a Zero in a one on one fight. It’s a great anecdote as it’s from arguably Japan’s most famous ace that also corresponds to the general consensus in regards to the toughness of a certain aircraft and the fragility of another that he was very knowledgeable of. Again something that means absolutely zilch in War Thunder as they both die the same thanks to stupid cannon damage.
A bullet in the right place will down any aircraft as mentioned earlier.
No they absolutely did not.
Lets look at Japan’s most popular fighters and compare them to other popular fighters.
The Wildcat had armour plating from the get go and only got more protected with the F4F-4. When did the Zero get actual armour plating/pilot protection? Armoured glass was more or less all they got by 1943 apparently.
The Hawker Hurricane received armour protection as early as 1939, when did the Ki-43? Ah yes 1942.
Japanese aircraft only had pilot armour more or less half way through the war. No way in hell was it adopted “at the same rate”.
Like I said though none of this matters. Because everything is as flimsy as a Nakajima in War Thunder.
Nose mounted guns, literally the most permissive shot from a slow stalling enemy, you didn’t even snap their wings like you say they would, all within 0.2-0.3kms and you got your kill via smoking the pilot. You could’ve replaced the guns with .30s and still gotten that kill. Here’s the funny part; If you didn’t hit the pilot, this dude would’ve still been alive, there was no fire either. If this was your example, you literally showed how even in a concentrated burst in the most opportune of shots, with all the advantages in your favor, you still had to rely on a pilot snipe to kill him.
And I’m correct. They are underperforming. We covered it further in this thread that for the same 10% flammability chances to occur your round has to be smacking from 1km away. The flammability chances should still be within the 2-shot range until around 550 meters until petering off the the chance that’s currently in-game.
A rework that prioratizes fragmentation and steps back blast damage is better, since you don’t to really don’t want to see this super localized damage made useless.
In that hitpoint buff you said however, tail sections could def see some sort of buff.
I’ll take the correction, I thought the armoured windscreen was 1944 not the pilot armour/seat armour itself.
It’s still nowhere near similar to the dates of most allied aircraft, definitely not its direct competition.
Also self sealing fuel tanks only in late 1943. Something allied aircraft had even as early as 1940.
Not just the Ki-43. The D4Y’s also were reported for cracking and the Ki-84 supposedly had a habit of its landing gear collapsing and general quality control issues.
Like I said before none of this exactly matters as in War Thunder all aircraft are made out of confetti.
And also because quality of alloys isn’t modelled in WT, T-34’s roof fallin on it’s crew from a 75mm he shell from a Panzer IV wouldn’t be fun because the weld failed really.
And neither would Bi-1’s fuel eating away at it from the inside
Armored front glass in ~summer 1944 with A6M5 Otsu introduction and full armor in October 1944
No. Zero didn’t recieve self sealing fuel tanks in 1943. It should get it also in October 1944 with A6M5 Hei variant but because of resources shortage its serial production (I mean of self sealing fuel tank) didn’t started or was like on several planes. Most of Zeroes didn’t have fuel tanks self sealing.
I forgot about D4Y though its problems were solved. Afaik D4Y problems and not putting it in mass production in early 1942 prevented appearing a bias dive bomber in war (Because D4Y had ~50km/h higher speed than US carrier fighter)
But about Ki-84 I disagree. With it we should count Spits and 109s as weak designed as they had gear problems while “control issues” is something like not simulated in game at all and with it P-39’s with self sealing should has leakage of fuel all time
The common structure power especially against aerodynamic is not highly related to the vulnerable against guns. I mean that both P-47 and Ki-43 should not crack the wing after 2 .50 hits.
The difference is that MG151/20 is evil overperforming cannon that needs giganerf, while MG151/15 is wholesome and deals wide area instead of concentrated damage
As in my original reply:
The late 109s may have a lot of armor:
But that makes them very heavy and much less agile than earlier models like Es and Fs. You have less OPTIONS when dealing with many enemies because you can no longer turn with many of them.
Range requirement was now mostly irrelevant since they were on the defensive. Adding more weight didn’t interfere with other requirements that the IJN wanted.
What?
Not being detected and acquired works just fine still. Many players do not watch every angle and diving on one with the engine off is a common trick that also works against SPAAs.
Also wings and tails are unarmored.
And not spotting/ignoring someone despite ARB having a very strong spotting system is better?
Everything in aviation is a tradeoff. Self sealing tanks greatly reduce fuel capacity. Armor and fire extinguishers add weight.
It’s almost as if real life isn’t War Thunder and most kills are not high angle deflection shots.
Spitfires had the advantage of fighting 109s over France much earlier, and gained valuable combat experience. Even so it is only enough to stop rifle caliber MGs and both fuel tanks are non-self sealing.
Much later models of Spitfire still had the top fuel tank be unprotected.
This was an issue with the Ki-43-1 and was quickly remedied; Ki-43-2 solved it entirely.
Wildcat would have died to the .30cals too in-game.
All of the following are from circa late 1942
The Ki-43-2 was the most produced model of japan’s highest scoring fighter.
Why would I snap their wings if I didn’t hit them?
And? Are you unable to get closer to ensure a kill?
It’s actually a great example because I MISSED almost everything and a tiny window where I hit something relevant was enough to get a kill.
No, you just showed everyone your aim is somehow even worse than mine, despite you being the USA main between us.
This tends to happen when you’re being bombed instead of having all your factories safely tucked away behind an ocean. Though equipment failures weren’t rare for anyone and we can look at the Helldiver for a great example of this.
This is some of the biggest cope to come out’ve your mouth.
“It’s great because my guns didn’t do anything until I struck that tiny little target.”
Meanwhile anything with HE basically detonates wings and blows aircraft apart.
I struck everywhere that should’ve killed this dude, but I guess the only thing that matters is if I hit the pilots? API, the thing that’s supposed to light people up doesn’t actually light people up. Lol
So I’m right that the only things that matter is the pilot snipes because everything else is a diceroll? Lol
“I must stand in front of this guy’s guns until it is too late to pull out!”
by THIS point you should already be pulling out to dodge the incoming fire, and then recommitted so he doesn’t just get free shots at you. Staying for so long even after you SEE him fire is just suicide. You died for nothing.
This is also exactly what I meant when I said mistakes should be, and right now ARE punished. You didn’t dodge anywhere near in time, and got very lucky in only losing a wingtip which still allows you to crash land at the airfield.
Observe. What should be a free kill from a mistake, and yet none of his rounds did anything to me that made me combat inoperable. I not only survived this but I was able to still fight adequately even when I was the only one on my team left.
Grinding up a P-38, despite raking his wings and smacking his engine and fuel tanks no fire. I had to hit him a significant amount of times.
But the lowly Ki-44 with only 2 guns can handle targets just fine.
.50s either kill, or do basically nothing—a literal diceroll. There’s no inbetween. I damage a dude, and it’s almost always enough to shrug off the hits and continue the fight, the damage is too light to matter, or it’s central to the fuselage. So the penalty is drag. But who cares if you’re a Bf-109, Yak, Ki-44, Spitfire. You’ll still turn well and you can just pull hard to one-tap
Because he MISSED anything and everything important despite having 750rpm x 8. Didn’t even black your tail.
Whole lotta missing going on here too.
Let me remind you that the most common configuration for cannons is to have just two of them, and since you’re playing the razorback they’ll have 60-100rds with few exceptions. With this bad of an aim you might just not kill him at all.
Notice how you are not missing 99% of your shots and suddenly the guns work! Just like in the .50cal thread.
My turn, with one of the few american props that doesn’t handle like hot ass.
This is just unfair. Doing this in an A6M2 (3.7, not 2.7 like this evil ass plane) would take longer and be much more annoying. And this has either the same or worse guns than your P-47D and just half of them.
But no, clearly they’re underperforming. These may be low tier planes but they are dying the moment my first shots hit. On fire and missing wings.
Ah! So he has to hit something important! Oh wow. So unlike other aircraft that have HE filler in their guns. They can just… Blow planes up near instantly. Meanwhile the U.S—the country with the least agile prop aircraft—have to rely on hitting weakspots?
“You don’t understand! No point is valid if you can’t magically hit 100% of all your shots. Just ignore all the hits!”
Meanwhile your enemies climb faster, have better sustained turns and are equipped with weapons that instantly punish at the slightest mistakes at the cost of “Not being able to spam your cannons…”
Until you’re having enemies with more cannons or they get machine guns—or had them since the beginning—that have HE filler in them, making them essentially just better versions of .50 cals that shit damage all over the place.
U.S. props become some of the hardest to play by having some of the highest weight, with some of the lowest vertical and horizontal MER, and low climbrates, but hey. At least you can spam their guns and you can be fast or something.
From a balancing perspective that’s complete and utter dogass.
