this has not at all been my experience
i am someone who has played duels alot, the duel community is made up of less than 100 total people and has zero influence over gameplay changes.
noone thinks like this
i do not agree. you are presenting your own personal opinion as objective fact
??? That’s how it works already. Always has been.
The only difference is that mediocre guns allow players to make mistakes and not be punished for it, likely resulting in them diving back to their airfield bubble.
“Quick reflexes” is not ahead of skill in any scenario, be it with mediocre or strong guns.
If you’re landing your shots first, that means you are better positioned right? Most of the tactical depth happens in the first five minutes while you’re climbing and getting into position to energy fight or dive on someone, not while you’re getting shot at.
I don’t know what kind of great comeback you are talking about. Getting hit countless times and diving back to the airfield to repair?
You are talking about aerial ballet and stuff like that while you main bombers, heavy fighters and anything that’s not suited for dogfighting though?
It also means you spray half your ammo and out of 300 shells 1 lands.
This is not sustainable, but it sometimes works.
People aiming properly are more predictable in some situations, as I know I have to dodge the spot they predict I’ll be in.
Not as effective vs sprayers, and current situations greatly benefits people whose aim is completely inconsistent and they can’t track their target while landing shots.
Yet this has been my experience and is supported by the firing tests that are in this very topic, where goddamn Shvak dealt more consistent damage than M-geschoss. A single hit will either break the wing or make the plane unflyable, as Do with black wing module can’t even outrun A6M3.
It’s only supported by every aircraft game out there. Like EVERy SINGLE ONE. No other game has 1-shotting 20mm and 2-shotting 12.7mm HE-firing MG.
Also almost no FPS shooters have consistent fast firing 1-hit = kill weapons. The only things that do that have big drawbacks (like f.e. pump action shotguns, bolt action rifles and similar stuff). The rest requires headshots, in some cases heart + lungs + spine are also such area for auto weapons, but there’s like 1 such game, Rising Storm 2.
Thing is even in RS2 you can get hit a few times and survive, as scoring kills too easily is considered bad for gameplay almost universally in game industry.
warthunder is not an fps game
you ever played world of warplanes before? talked to anyone who has? no? makes you think dosent it.
shavaks have slightly better belts its not enough to actually matter in game though
The best comebacks, ironically, are only really possible thanks to good gun damage, when you are outnumbered and even the last one alive in your team. In those situations, having the capability to quickly dispatch each enemy before the next one becomes a problem is critical.
Don’t want to get shot down? Don’t get hit, just like everyone else.
You mean like the one in real life where an IL-2 wing was torn open like a tin can from a mere 9g of HE?
What does WOWP have to do here, it doesn’t even use a module system similar from Il-2 (WT i derived from IL-2 birds of prey).
Also didn’t WOWP completely flop at launch and is capped at early cold war aviation?
Tech trees| World of Warplanes
it matters because it leaves its succesor, the NS-23 obsolete thanks to the reduced firerate, ammo quantity (23mil takes more space), ballistics (800m/s for B-20/ShVAK and 690m/s for NS-23) and BELTS ( 1 every 4 rounds is an AP-I )
Since NS-23 is supposed to carry more filler (16.94g for 23mm vs 6.36g for 20mm) They are supposed to make a pretty easy to notice difference in damage yet only difference is that 23mil will fling 6-8 fragments and thats it.
which means the Soviet aircraft went one step backwards? Why use your 23mm? Just mount the B-20 and call it a day, I bet yak-15 enjoyers would love more than 60 rounds per cannons and a firerate of 800RPM with a 100% chance of a FI-T.
Instead of the current 600RPM, 60 round with 25% chance of an AP-I.
20mm even devour themselves,
hispano 404 has a serious case of crap belts, players should pick between 2 best belts.
Universal or Tracer
both are explosive and AP in 50/50 and alternating.
Now universal has the hei round, which packs 12.1g of TNT eq
Tracer has hei-t round with 9.68g.
By all means Universal should pack more punch even if by a small amount, in reality both belts are the same.
Next example Type 99 (any)
You can choose tracers with 100% hef-t with 6.02g
or
You can pick stealth for 3/5 rounds to be hef packed with 11.98g
or
Universal with hef-t/ hef/ hef/aphe
You pick tracers because almost double the filler doesn’t mean a thing, you just want more yellow.
Next example (exception)
mg151/20
now mg151/20 has some horrid ballistics compared to other 20mils.
Which is why you see some experienced players pick stealth over air targets
Since stealth belts has better ballistics.
But then what about tracer belt? FI-T round has almost same velocity as ShVAK 20mm and even similar filler? Why don’t they pick it? Is it the belt composition?
No
It is because the FI-T round of the mg151/20 fragmentates like it is supposed to do! Try it!
It doesn’t make a black section, it turns yellow a lot of stuff at once!
Which is were you have the issue of fragmentation, it practically doesn’t exist for calibers of 20mm.
The “impact” you see is more akin to a mine / hche shell, since the thin cases were completely obliterated upon detonation due to the construction of the shell itself.
The nerf I call on 20mm isn’t because I want to tank stuff and camp airfield, it is because it harms balance.
Shells with more filler are left obsolete, calibers above 20mm are reduced to ballistics, iif worse = bad, if better then on equal standing since on damage they are the same in most cases.
Aircraft that mount more 20mils for more burst mass are simply reduced to “better in headon” (sometimes since you still need ballistics, because a SM.92 loses to an I-225 still / Me-262 kind of mid at headons).
More burstmass doesn’t mean “better in headon” only, you should be able to feel it anywhere when you land your shots.
A 5.0 yak-3P and a 4.7 Yak-3 are basically the same, because not only are the triple cannons of the Yak-3P not really felt, but also the firerate is barely noticeable. When it reality such a weak filler would see an improvement in firerate like a treasure since it means it can send more lead to compensate.
A J-21A-1 and a A-2 are also barely different, the time to kill of both is the same, just one can headon a little better any firerate differences past 700 RPM are irrelevant.
when you use your La-7B-20 do you feel the 3 B-20S makin a difference or do you just see that your ammo drains faster thanks to the faster firerate and lower individual ammo count vs a La-7 with a pair ShVAKs?
G.55 sottoserie 0 and Serie 1 are the same except one replaces 2 50cals for additional 20mils. Any difference? maybe total firerate (preferably you still want at least +700 RPM total) but outside of that you are now 5.3, enjoy your stay.
how can I not remember my favorite example? Yak-9P! 3 options for:
Any difference felt? No? I bet if you could only leave the top 20mm pair you also wouldn’t feel any difference.
I think it’s a little more relevant than fps games. It also has a much longer ttk and bombers and attackers are op as fuck. Yeah ur right it flopped noone plays it any ideas as to why?
So the solution is to make guns more inconsistent instead of balancing around everything having good damage, fascinating take
Not exactly, shavak has better muzzle velo but the projectile also has a a lot of drag, ns23 has far more reach making it much better in headons. This is also true comparing 151s to shavaks
Yeah, it’s usually a TPS, changes so much, because exactly the same argument applies.
What? Where? Did it fall off? I’m not claiming a lucky hit can not produce a bit more aerodynamic problems but now you’re just grasping at straws “hey, look, in one case it did spme serious damage” while in all other tests it didn’t. Bad materiala, shoddy worksmanship is also quite important What gun was it even? But I guess if there’s a single case ever documented, then every shot should be like that or more, lol.
FI-T beats M-geschoss in the test against Do-335 wing. It’s more consistent. And in that test I failed to document 1 shitty M-geschoss performance. Said “oh well”, fired another and got shitty damage again, so it’even worse than I’ve shown
“Good damage” is an understatement of the year.
It’s way past “good” and into “ridiculous plasma blaster” territory.
OK, I guess I’ll just ignore you from now on.
I see you’re here just to troll, Percussion is going the same route BTW. “look, I made a single shot in a game with randomized damage, surely this means these 2 guns are equal”, nope, that’s not statistically relevant, and I’m sure you’re doing that deliberately.
the point is that the difference dose not matter
useless weapon should have just put another 13mm on the plane if you ask me
Point is, there should be a big difference in favor of M-geschoss. Meanwhile Shvak will break the wing more reliably in single shot, which actually matters A LOT. And that’s on top of Sshvak being 100% HE vs 60% HE for MG151/20.
The rest of your post is just showing what exactly every other 20mm sans Hoe-5 can do. Wow, yeah, single HE shell hits and the guy dies (which, again, M-geschoss does less reliably than Soviet FI-T). Too bad you have 40% chance it’ll be AP instead and nothing happens on top of ballistics being dogshit. In other words - you’re just trolling.
You say im just trolling as if I am supposed to take you seriously when your only issue with current gun damage is really that the red guys guns will also do damage.
Wow, just wow.
Maybe leave thinking for others and just focus on teh grind to get to top tier ASAP?
