Cannons doing too much damge

[Gnza10091441]

Sure, at such a tiny scale or massive distance, you can’t adjust by a few centimeters, and dispersion will mess up your shot anyway. But there comes a point where the general direction absolutely matters, and you can’t just write that intent off as pure luck.

From 500 meters away against a B-17, the tip of the tail and the actual base supporting it are two completely distinct, targetable areas spaced several meters apart… But since the game treats the whole section as a single box, it doesn’t matter if my shot went too high and only clipped the very tip; the entire tail gets cleanly ripped off anyway.

Actually there’s no need for an overly complex structural breakdown that models every single rib. A reasonable generalization on a scale that actually matters is fine. But the hyper-generalized model we have now, where even the isolated tail gunner station counts as part of the main tail structure, is just blowing things way out of proportion

[KillaKiwi]

Sure but the current system is the result of smaller calibers dealing absurd amount of damage.

If a 30mm Mineshells breaks a B-17s tail in one shot, I expect a 20mm to need 10 and not 2 or 3.

[Thodin]

Maybe WT air combat would be more interesting, when planes don’t break into pieces/explode/bomb load explode/lose a wing/rear section snaps… cause of half a second of burst fire. Especially when its just ball ammo without explosive filler (looking at you, cal 50).

A general damage decrease or buffed air frames? Worth a try. Especially bombers, whose bomb load detonates as soon as you fire a short cal50 burst…all nonsense imho.

Less damage, more falloff, more scattering of your shots…something like this and see how its working. Right now its mouse point’n’click.

[Idledan]

I just took one round to the wing and it ripped my plane to pieces, yesterday I took one bullet to the engine it exploded my engine and ripped my wing off. My instant reaction was WTF? did I just get hit with a tank shell? no it was a ap-i… how does an AP-i do so much damage with one round? Everyone should be using it apparently it just rips planes apart. Oh this is in a F6F-5 you know the aircraft with the armor plates known for taking tons of damage and still flying, it literally has armor plates in it and they do nothing.

[PercussionCap]

@poopooo

Nothing, it doesn’t break. Apparently, what the game does is make the plane turn at exactly the G-forces it can withstand, which makes it impossible to break the wings due to G-forces

You were saying?

[Idledan]

This has been a post for over 3 years and nothing has been done? WTF Gaijin? I’m sitting here posting thinking this is some newer topic and adding support and it’s been going on for over 3 years? WoW Okay time to start making my own game and to put these people out of business.

[KillaKiwi]

Good luck

[poopooo]

I’ve tried and nothing, I could only (with great effort) break the wings of the G8N.

[poopooo]

As I said before, the A-4E is the only one I’ve seen that functioned correctly, withstanding high G-forces for a while and breaking its wings from being stressed for too long. The curious thing is that it only affects the Israeli A-4E Premium, because it doesn’t affect the American A-4E.

[PercussionCap]

@poopooo

I’ve tried and nothing, I could only (with great effort) break the wings of the G8N.

Well, I dunno what to say. Skill issue maybe. I did both of those in Realistic with little effort.

G8N wings are very fragile. They break even in modest maneuvers. G.91s used to almost require you to fly them without boosted control surfaces to avoid losing wings. Now they’re a lot nicer.

[poopooo]

I would think that the G-force breakage is not activated in the test drive, but when the wings break with the G8N and the Israeli A-4E it is seen that it is active in the test drive.What I don’t understand is why it’s so difficult (practically impossible) to break the wings due to G-forces.

@PercussionCap

Well, I dunno what to say. Skill issue maybe. I did both of those in Realistic with little effort.

Well, I don’t know because I don’t break my wings due to G-forces, but honestly, if it’s a skill issue, I prefer to stay as I am, since I don’t see the point of the ability to break your own wings.

[RXDimA]

I am going to go insane from getting “hits” with MG 151s

[DocProfit]

They need to swap Shvak damage with MG151 damage.

A single Shvak absolutely wrecks anything it hits.

This was the reality:

Weak explosive shell compared to some rivals

This was the biggest criticism.

The ShVAK’s 20 mm shell had:

• relatively light projectile weight
• smaller explosive filler than some German or British 20 mm rounds

Compared to guns like:

• MG 151/20
• Hispano-Suiza HS.404

…the ShVAK often needed more hits to destroy aircraft.

[PercussionCap]

@poopooo

What I don’t understand is why it’s so difficult (practically impossible) to break the wings due to G-forces.

Wings have a timer proportional to how long you are above their G limit. If you only exceed it by, say, 0.1G, it will count down pretty slowly until they break, whereas before they snapped off instantly.
If you exceed the limit by a large number, they do snap off almost instantly.

@poopooo

since I don’t see the point of the ability to break your own wings.

I just did it to prove it can be done, apparently I know how to stress aircraft better than you. This change has been a huge gameplay improvement though.

@DocProfit

…the ShVAK often needed more hits to destroy aircraft.

Agreed on that, but I don’t think any cannon should be doing little damage. That would seriously upset the balance of very competitive aircraft like Yak-3U even more.

[KillaKiwi]

Well, it’s only annoying because you get 33-40% shells that basically won’t do anything most of the time, while explosive shells and guns with full explosive belts are way more consistent.

With how bad 20mm Mineshells ballistics are, I‘m not sure whether a full belt would actually beneficial.

Right now you can fire AP shells at 785m/s using the stealth belt, which aren’t ideal but they do boost the range and chance to hit.

[KillaKiwi]

@PercussionCap

Agreed on that, but I don’t think any cannon should be doing little damage. That would seriously upset the balance of very competitive aircraft like Yak-3U even more.

Whats there to upset?

It’s the best 5.7/6.0 aircraft and has right know the best WW2 cannons it can ask for.

Even when nerfed they would still be perfectly fine for taking out other fighters, since it also outperform them in one way or another.

[PercussionCap]

@KillaKiwi

It’s the best 5.7/6.0 aircraft and has right know the best WW2 cannons it can ask for.

Right now. It used to be lower because ShVAKs sucked and its flight performance was even more uncontestable.
As it stands, it will likely be moved up like the LF Mk9 was since firepower is no longer an issue.

[iegaatdao]

I feel like the topic of cannon damage are pushed by 2 sides mainly

german mains, who want the mg151/20 becoming a one shotter and leave every 20mil behind.

USSR mains, who know that the shvak and subsequent models would turn into a mid cannon that relies on API.

I still want cannon nerfs, but both cannons need to be in their respective places.

shvak must actually need to carry API to hit fuel tanks unfortunate, but thats what happens when put 6.36g of TNT equivalent and compare to a round that has like over 4.5x as much kick, time to switch belts.

and mg151/20 can’t also get away with becoming a 40 bofors cannon, your ballistics could be bad, but that doesn’t justify blowing up an IL-2 with 2 rounds to the wing, there was a reason for the existance of the MK-108, 20mm Mine shells were not a scifi wonder weapon, they were simply a small step forward.

mg151/20 cannot outclass 30mm cannons, the only cannon that has a higher caliber and the mine round can beat is the russian 23mil (16.94 g of TNT equivalent vs 29.76 g of TNT equivalent), but said 23mil beats it in ballistics so pretty balanced.

In a nutshell

Shvak becomes a fatter berenzin 50cal with a lot more kick (12.7mm explosive rounds must also be toned down)

mg151/20 becomes a hard to aim and subsequentially limits a plane’s range, even so, it simply has more chances to make larger (more drag), blow away control surfaces, and damage wooden spars.

hispano cannon (spaded because stock it jams a lot) which I will consider from hispano Mk.I to Mk.V include the 404 from France and Oerlikon FF from Finland, have incredibly good ballistics and pack around a bit more punch than shvaks, only differences are belts.

An/M2 has over the half of TNT filler as the mine rounds and with ballistics to back up, while the M3 has ballistics of a hispano cannon and actually less power than a AN/M2 but still better than a hispano cannon.

Type 99 model 1 cannon from Japan will be a near copycat of the shvak, both model 1 and 2 have the same ballistics, but type 1 has a lot less explosive filler, hell on both cannons, the full tracer belt IS BAD try to look of the non tracer explosive rounds, since the Type 99 doesn’t recieve API, only aphe which in itself is just little more powerful than a hispano SAP, but still weaker than a shvak FI-T.
Type 99 model 2 is closer to the AN/M2 funnily, even close on explosive filler, but falls shorts on ballistics.

Akan m/45 and Akan m/41 are both just reskinned version from one another and beat the hispano family on all aspects, by a super duper small amount.

aircraft cannons have differences other than belts, people need to accept that.

[KillaKiwi]

The BRs of Soviet planes hasn’t changed, ever since they over buffed realShatter.

The Yak-3 going from 4.3 to 4.7 was the first time in 2-3 years that a Soviet plane had their BR increased.

So what you are saying makes no sense.

[KillaKiwi]

@iegaatdao

An/M2 has over the half of TNT filler as the mine rounds and with ballistics to back up, while the M3 has ballistics of a hispano cannon and actually less power than a AN/M2 but still better than a hispano cannon.

The British Hispano explosive shell is actually identical to the AN/M2.

But Gaijin simply refuses to acknowledge that.

They call one HEI, the other HEFI, with the British gun having the correct explosive amount while the US gun having both explosives and incendiary filler counted as explosive.

Another one of those issues. For years I’m trying to make Gaijin model the incendiary content of shells, while they pretend it doesn’t matter.

Or they do something stupid and turn Japanese API into APHE that can’t penetrate any armor plates because it explodes on impact with 2mm dural, like a explosive shell.

Same with Hispano SAPI.