the moment your enemy actually sets themself up correctly you cant
I feel as some of you are underestimating how much work the instructor is doing. When your aircraft gets damaged, it’s either dependent on the instructor or the poilet whether or not it goes down. Personally I wish there was a slider on how much the instructor helps you.
My next point is that it’s very hard the gauge the power of cannons or any gun in general when each aircraft is different values, and different flights models.
How about we start with the core of the problem and get damage models fixed, gaijin lately has been responding to issues, but only when they get to a certain point. So how about we as a community makes a list of things we need solved, and start with the top of the list.
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That is a factor I won’t deny, but also the perfomance hit you take when damaged is also being downplayed, even without somehow no leaks it would be pretty noticeable to see how your opponent now struggles to keep pace with manoevers or chases.
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dude
you get one yellow wingtip and you cant roll anymore in some planes
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i will stop doing it when people who lack the ability to play the game properly stop demanding massive changes to the game that ruin what i find enjoyable about it
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and now attackers are basically useless since they’re getting to the ground units at the same time as the fighters, with no ability to get a few kills in before they sweep in
in the later half of the game if you have numerical superiority the fighters can just do ground attack themselves
those are night interceptors and the latter are based on medium bombers
none of them are truly armored
J5N has respectable armor but only in front of the pilot, 410s have spread-out thin armor that only really protects against small caliber weapons, the other two have nothing worth mentioning
this is not the issue, the issue is being able to end a match in sub-2 minutes by shooting stationary targets that largely don’t fight back
Also:
The Ho-103’s killing power has been compared to cannons very often. I was shooting at a P-40:
…With a belt that is 75% HEF and 25% AP-T. That AP-T has been derided as being ineffective due to its low velocity.
You can see once again that having AP is BENEFICIAL to faster killing times and it’s faster than “just blowing off their tail”.
I wanna stop on this actually.
Focusing on what requires “skill” is the wrong thing.
It’s like the players who play modern vehicles and see how much easier it is to use everything compared to older tech, so they associate the comparison in “skill” needed to operate something powerful and that skill should be scaled to how powerful that something is, which is the wrong answer.
Not everything is going to take a tremendous amount of skill and even if it did, that doesn’t make you a better player neccessarily, you simply just worked with what you got.
It’s like for example, why WW2 gameplay doesn’t transfer over to modern combat, completely different skillsets and mindsets you have to learn. The core concept is the same, but alot of variables have changed.
Which is also why I tell people that just because 1 player grinded from bottom tier to the introducty top tier while the other bought a premium to get into top tier, doesn’t neccessarily mean one will be better than the other. As they both now have to learn a completely new realm.
When it comes to guns, especially on planes, the only factor of skill is if you can simply aim.
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Make a bug report and send it. That said I can’t promise changes will be made instantly as Gaijin can take 42 years to implement something (the snail logo is very apt).
Another way to confirm that Gaijin still cares about realism is to just read the patch notes, you’ll find changes with the real world evidence sometimes from the vehicle’s operators manual.
Considering you had to put a solid burst in to kill the pilot and I can put 1-2 20mm’s or a single tap of the trigger into a tail to rip it clean off says otherwise.
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It has been bug reported multiple times. Gaijin has already said they make it unrealistic because that is the way the game is designed.
ig if you look at this from a 100% neutral standpoint you could say this would be kinda unbalanced since different nations have differently well working weaponry against ground targets
POV youre fighting wyvern teams:
fun for nobody since the team with the wyvers prob will lose like half its team in a sec
and the other team will have basically lost before the battle started
POV fighting anything airspawned that actually knows how ground targets work.
not rlly
its just that wyverns are so god damn fast
You could win the whole game before anything had a chance to kill you.
I was aiming too low. The tail still did not come off.
And these are the same guns that have been claimed to snap wings and tails off “instantly”.
Not as fast but yesterday in the J5N I was ending games very quickly on tickets after the initial engagements by just taking out ground targets. And I was doing that mostly by myself.
They’ll die if they do as always and just rush forward like a Wyvern.
They’ll need a page from the slower pair of strike aircraft, see where the enemy runway is and where it is pointed at and estimate a “cone” of possible enemy presence (you need to account for sideclimbers).
It’s like when you see a B-17 just fly (or even dive) towards a base and complain they didn’t come back, while they skipped the steps of “don’t call too much attention” and “try to climb”.
Also means that if you need to kill strike aircraft for a task you can put yourself in their shoes and try to intercept them, protecting your objective and saving tickets but delaying your presence early game your team furball comes down to the deck.
“Only small caliber” because we are missing the other guy, even less penetration but in a lot more numbers.
There aren’t a lot of plates that can stop calibers like 20mm or american 12.7mm unless very far. That’s the “AP” part, in reality they are more or less made to survive those small caliber weapons and below, What’s below small caliber? Fragmentation
Spoiler
and also round tumbling but you really don’t want to recode how different aircraft skins behave and would make stuff completely “inmortal” unless your armament literally evolved from basically an automatic anti-tank weapon or have pen values near one.
Currently not really present on a significant way, german 15mm and 20mm FI-T are outliers.
Does it exist outside of these? Yes, in case you wonder what 7.7 IAI does, it spawns 3 fragments that travel very short barely visible distances.
That’s because, outside of 20mm which use some random fixed value, caliber only determines amount of fragmentation and the distance it travels (If you shoot a tiny tim or uncle tom at a plane you’ll see how the fragments reach all of furthest places on the plane), also only fragments that hit something are shown, that’s why if you shoot an enormous rocket at a wing tip you’ll see a fan of fragmentation instead of a sphere.
Of course our only outlier is the 20mm, that produces 3 fragments that automatically black out a section unless it just happens to be a Japanese shell, which case it has a random chance to make an red-orange tone.
23mil does the same but now can spawn actual fragments that fly out and hit some random small stuff.
30mm goes all the way and spawns crapton of fragmentation.
(Note that calibers above 30mm, AP or Not, will cause fuel tank detonations on direct contact and kill airplanes instantly, even happens on the 57mil mosquito).
It really isn’t, it’s the same method + more firerate, they still have a difference with cannons since to “one-shot” you need multiple to land at the same place (to be fair M2s do the same), could it benefit from fragmentation? 50/50, you can reach unprotected vitals more easily without having the skin stop you but you will still need AP. I think ho-103’s is ok at the moment, maybe it is powerful because it is compared to Breda SAFATs (750 RPM), but those are more of a API-T belt, the explosive rounds on it are bad even on paper, and people forget the Berenzin’s 996RPM + 50/50 IAI and API-T belts indeed have explosive rounds. Those are the ones that shred you apart and behave like almost-cannons.
All of these split wings are because spars aren’t hard to miss and arent very durable, not helped by bluetooth connections magically transfering damage from spar to spar.
Split tails is because tails are too fragile, and just need “1 step”, unlike wings that need both spar and wing section broken.
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this doesn’t really work if a single fighter chooses to kill you, unless ground units were widely spread around the map you’ll always have this problem
even then you’ll very likely be spotted and someone is free to throw away all their altitude to kill you
The .50BMG is actually much more prone to tumbling and then nonpenetrating because it uses a boat-shaped projectile instead of one shaped like a tank shell (most cannon AP rounds). .50BMGs have really bad penetration loss when hitting at an angle.
Armor does protect against HE pretty well, the issue is that you can’t cover an entire plane with armor. Shoot at the side of an IL-2 where the armor is and you’ll see HE shells do very little.
Many have claimed they hit as hard as cannons. Especially over on the .50cal cope thread.
But against that P-40 and the Tempest earlier, it’s much more convenient to bring AP when shooting from behind which also results in a kill sooner than detaching the tail. That’s my point.
I didn’t, only case where this is true is the Berenzin because it has a random chance to black out a section.
That’s gun converge doing it’s job and landing you 8 explosive rounds in 1 place.
Speaking of, having 4x 12.7mm do make you feel a difference in most scenarios compared to x2 12.7mm.
Unlike 20mm which are simply limited to better chance in headons.
Blast sure, but it is in VERY but VERY specific situations, and that “overpressure” bit can still be blocked if it simply lands 30cm away. And we are still missing the other guy, which will make it realize that your plane lacks basic armor or doesn’t have armor plate on the side.
If I shoot the Il-2 in the wing root with a 20mm I simply snap it off without a sweat.
In case of a 12.7mm like the ho-103 it also dissapears, except now you need to hammer it a bit more.
Both cases armor never came into play.
If it fragmentates instead of dealing fixed section damage, armor will give you a notice via, blocking the oil systems and pilot, you will however probably knock out the aileron from that side and destroy the flaps. And it will make you use AP to atleast kill the gunner and fuel tank (protected by 12mm plate), and have time to calmly kill the tail control cables (which can only be hit with AP, but now fragments can also reach it), simply blow off the elevators and kill the radiator (armor only on the sides and bottom).
But if you shoot at a dude on a P-40 (like you did), if you hit the wing root, and even side fuselage you spray the pilot, fuel tank AND engine (remember IL-2 got armor around the engine and fuel tank too).
But the 9mm plate will protect pretty well if you try to shoot at the tail section (control cables are pretty tough and elevators won’t come off in 1 shell anymore I forgot to mention).
But if you meet an (single engine) opponent with no armor, like since we are playing Japan I suppose, we’ll meet a 109 Emil.
“But it does have backseat armor” you say? But look closely and you can see the fuel tank completely exposed on early variants, so if you fire even explosive rounds at the tail of an early 109, you will cause a leak, which even if self sealing it won’t withstand so much hammering and will cause a nasty leak and even fire on the only fuel tank it has.
And in case you wonder what happens at the wing root, same as P-40, pilot, engine, fuel tank BUT now also radiator.
3 different aircraft, all of them with at least backseat armor, 3 different reactions to the same weapons.
Currently they are all the same if you carry one 20mm or two.
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News with plans to increase bombers survivability and still no post about it here
Weird
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Bomber are more tilted towards issues with their damage models.
The enormous modules barely have extra health but are x10 more easy to hit.
But yeah bombers do pop up every once in a while and are affected by current cannons.