Cannons doing too much damge

[iegaatdao]

@PercussionCap

It would also make no difference if your wing wasn’t detached and the plane stayed whole, but all lift from it was lost and you were put in a permanent flatspin. It is a sort of artistic option.

So that means we can transition into more fragmentation based damage instead of blast damage? Just what I keep wanting to happen.

Except you know it makes a pretty noticeable difference.

@PercussionCap

I can go play nations other than germany and italy, knowing their cannons also do damage

But you will notice how the ballistics are enormosly improved or armor penetration is improved or firerate is improved further or see actual fragmentation at work (remember I said Minen rounds have thin cases that are completely obliterated and make really small fragmentation compared to other 20mm)

Different cannons, different strong points, different weaknesses.

[iegaatdao]

@PercussionCap

we already have those

Il-10 has no armor near those spots and the buff is completely artificial, under your justification I can say current bomber fragility doesn’t exist because they had the same treatment.

Also while 23mm has less filler than 20mm minen, it still retains a thick case so it would fragmentate very well, leading to both good blast and fragmentation damage but it has a lot less ammo and is on the lower ends of firerates.

Wow those more powerful cannons always come with more downsides to balance them out, mmmm, how incredible and handy for game balance

@PercussionCap

And the community has repeatedly disagreed and pooled their efforts together to change that.

Same community that removed dynamic objectives from 90% of maps made defensive guns shake all over the place and made bombers out of paper because they think “aim good and land it somewhere” should be the only skill in WT and maybe learn fields of fire, strategic moves for a win condition and learning your foes can take move under the bridge.

And same community that led to stuff like A6M5s in 5.7 next to Yak-3Us, half the air battles community are actually tank players who come for CAS or want SPAA to smite all planes instead of idk, rework CAS or try to close the skill gap in SPAA vs CAS rivalry

@PercussionCap

They are too narrow to provide good protection.

But they are there?, from full back to reach a pilot of an A-26 you must atleast pen 2 armor plates meanwhile the gunner tries to kill you.
Except now I just cut the tail off and reject the entire ordeal.

[FeetPics]

@iegaatdao

Always the same argument and I’ll drop the same answer.

And what does this rework look like?
In comparison to how Il-2 Korea handles damage? In comparison to Il-2 BOS? In comparison to old War Thunder ShVAK damage or realshatter 1.0?

Everything I have seen from your camp is basically that old ShVAK damage where FI-T was the most useless round in the belt was perfectly fine. It wasn’t until fragmentation damage bug was fixed that we saw ShVAK Derangement Syndrome over 4 years ago!

[lynx15]

@FeetPics

Okay but this Air Realistic mode should require the use of a joystick and first person view

Sim battles:

@FeetPics

Get rid of mouse aim and idiot-mode red markers.

aka make the game very inaccessible

@Gnza10091441

Honestly, it wouldn’t hurt for Air Realistic to be a bit more like Air Simulator

ehhh ig

@Gnza10091441

Let’s remove the markers and make mouse aim less stable.

but thats not the part that needs to change
just make it not be a glorified team deathmatch

@FeetPics

Remove 3rd person view too. Real pilots didn’t have 360 view IRL.

Sim battles:

@Omarb13legends

But in relation to the Realistic and SIm modes, it should be adjusted heavily.

yea

@Omarb13legends

Mouse Aim is the accessibility portion that allows for the ease of access

^^^^

@Omarb13legends

Red Markers also prevent the match from being drawn out for god knows how long since manually spotting aircraft would quite literally take ages.

and they are actually very helpful since different aircraft need to be fought different ways

@Omarb13legends

The spotting system is already finnicky enough so sometimes you don’t even see people until it’s too late.

we all loveeee crew lvls
(we dont)

@FeetPics

They are just crutches for people that don’t like realism

THEN GO TO SIM BATTLES

@FeetPics

There is no excuse for unrealistic semi-arcade mode

its called accessibility

@FeetPics

Not wanting to play sim is just a skill issue because more realism is automatically better.

THEN GO TO SIM BATTLES AND STOP TRYING TO MAKE ARB SIM

@FeetPics

Buddy I play real SIMULATORs like Il-2 where it takes 650+ rounds of .50 cals to bring down a Bf.109 and I do it with a joystick.

listen then
go play your sim games
but arb is not a sim
stop pretending it should be one

@iegaatdao

tell me how current damage benefits game design.

it doesnt
but just nerfing 20mm isnt the solution
if youd just buff DMs it would be way more beneficial

@PercussionCap

The fastest cannon, Ho-5, is only 150rpm faster but trades noticeably lower damage.

played it and can comfirm this info

@PercussionCap

MG151/20 also has a magazine depth advantage over ShVAK

but the shVAK gets full FI-T which can snap wings in one hit
the best you can get belt wise out of a 151/20 is 4 HE out of 6 shells
(basic math 2/6=2/3
2/3 times 200 is 400/3 is roundabout 133)
so 133 shots of he while shVAK gets on the yak3 as an example 120
so ehhh
ig kinda true but not that much of an advantage for the 151/20

@PercussionCap

190As with 250rds per gun.

and the worst flight performance at 4.0 /4.3

@PercussionCap

never claimed to be

(most people that do actually suck)

[FeetPics]

@lynx15

its called accessibility

It’s called not being skilled enough to learn to use mouse joystick and play from cockpit view. Why don’t you like realism? Or is realism only good when it suits you but bad when it doesn’t?

How is having planes die when you hit them with cannons not an accessibility issue? Should someone have to have 10 years of Air RB experience and aim training to make certain guns work?

[iegaatdao]

@FeetPics

And what does this rework look like?
In comparison to how Il-2 Korea handles damage? In comparison to Il-2 BOS? In comparison to old War Thunder ShVAK damage or realshatter 1.0?

The less filler a shell has compared to it’s caliber, the less blast damage but more fragmentation it creates.

A russian hef round will produce lots of fragmentation and will probably hit a lot of stuff at once systems, which may include crew, pilots, traction of control surfaces, control surfaces, oil system, engines, fuel tanks, etc . But it won’t make much of a difference to spars or tails.

Stuff it with filler and you end up with worse ballistics to start first, very concentrated damage but now if you want to knock out modules you need to strike directly, however, 1 strike and that is gone, also includes spars. BUT YOU NEED TO CONNECT DIRECTLY OR VERY BUT VERY NEAR.

Both these shells are slowed down a lot or stopped completely by armor or any survival system like EFS or self sealing tanks, say hi to AP, fly in and out and punch a hole into that module with ease to take it out, can reach to juicy insides behind that tail or armor plate.

What? Your plane has more than 2 cannons? No worries! The effects of having multiple cannons are felt! La-7B-20 and Yak-3P are actually +0.3 BR material compared to La-7 and Yak-3, or Spitfires with 4 cannons instead of 2 actually feel different, or Fw-190 As actually somewhat feel incredible firepower, Yak-9T can stop being overtiered ass for a super exact example.

Currently it is “I have 20mm cannons”.

-What model?"

-idk.

-What amount?

-Idk.

-What filler?

idk.

-What pen?

-idk I just have 20’s

-What firerate?

-Oh around 700rpm (it was 850)

-What belts?

-The one with more yellow

Or

-You have decent armor?

-Idk, I don’t really feel it, maybe my airframe is just heavy

This will scale up by caliber, we have 23mm that basically will outperform every 20mm shell no matter the filler it will be a more powerful 20mm, at every relation of Explosive/Case it will fragmentate more and deal more blast damage

And the last step will be +30mm and up which will be complete plane obliteration, deserved because 30mm are very fussy to land.

[FeetPics]

@iegaatdao

A russian hef round will produce lots of fragmentation and will probably hit a lot of stuff at once systems, which may include crew, pilots, traction of control surfaces, control surfaces, oil system, engines, fuel tanks, etc . But it won’t make much of a difference to spars or tails.

This is what we already had when ShVAKs were buffed the first time. They made it so it actually produced fragmentation and that the fragments did damage. That was what caused ShVAK to become “wow God mode head on gun” because you couldn’t just ignore them in German fighters.

At the same time the gun was not very good against bombers.

Your system would be too much damage.

[iegaatdao]

@FeetPics

This is what we already had when ShVAKs were buffed the first time. They made it so it actually produced fragmentation and that the fragments did damage. That was what caused ShVAK to become “wow God mode head on gun” because you couldn’t just ignore them in German fighters.

At the same time the gun was not very good against bombers.
Your system would be too much damage.

So it was a community problem?

See? You can’t take raw community input, which what led to the current model or basically any fancy aspect of Air battles.

“Your system would be too much damage.”

Predictable and reliable is a better word, you see info, process and have an idea what to do.

Currently just you just wing with more yellow and call it a day.

[lynx15]

@FeetPics

Why don’t you like realism

i do
but some stuff doesnt belong into some gamemodes

[FeetPics]

Why shouldn’t the “Realistic” mode be forced to use “realistic joystick” as it’s default control option and cockpit view?

Having 3rd person view gives ahistorical advantages to planes with long noses and deprives planes with short nose of an advantage they had in real life in terms of deflection shooting. What is the point of taking a performance loss for a bubble canopy, a huge innovation by the way, when you have 360 degree 3rd person view? Do Air RB pilots not want to learn real tactics like approaching planes from their blind spots??

[FeetPics]

@iegaatdao

So it was a community problem?

See? You can’t take raw community input, which what led to the current model or basically any fancy aspect of Air battles.

“Your system would be too much damage.”

Predictable and reliable is a better word, you see info, process and have an idea what to do.

Currently just you just wing with more yellow and call it a day.

This has been a debate that has been going on since before we even had the new forums. There was never a point in the games history where most people here would have been satisfied with gun damage.

Prior to ShVAK being buffed…the same people were complaining about US 20mm and M2 .50 cal. It was exactly the same debate.

[lynx15]

i told you it once and ill tell you it again
GO TO GOD DAMN SIM

[FeetPics]

Why? I want to play the “Realistic” mode but with as much realism as possible. I don’t like Enduring Confrontation.

[lynx15]

@FeetPics

I don’t like Enduring Confrontation.

your problem

[FeetPics]

Why?

You don’t like the damage therefore it needs to change for the sake of realism.

I don’t like all the crutch skill-robbing mechanics like mouse aim (lol 1km+ head ons) or 3rd person view (try checking low six o clock in something like F6F in cockpit view) that break my immersion and are unrealistic.

Mouse joystick already exists. You can learn to play with that or go play arcade with idiot mode red markers.

[lynx15]

@FeetPics

You don’t like the damage therefore it needs to change for the sake of realism.

tbh i actually quite enjoy the dmg

[FeetPics]

Cool. You are in the majority of players then.

This is a thread about reducing damage to lower than whatever it was 3+ years ago. Because someone’s P-47 KD got ruined in a head-on…in Sim.

[lynx15]

@FeetPics

This is a thread about reducing damage

im aware of that ty

@FeetPics

Because someone’s P-47 KD got ruined in a head-on…in Sim.

not rlly relevant info

[FeetPics]

So anyways do you feel better?

Why should I be told to go play arcade if I am happy with current damage model and not onboard with whatever shenanigans is decided to be realistic by the 4 people here that want everything to be nerf guns?

[lynx15]

but there is a difference between stuff i enjoy and stuff i think is correct
im not here to argue about what is realistic and what isnt
im here to argue about what is fair and what isnt