Cannons doing too much damge

[iegaatdao]

@PercussionCap

No, they do not use them because it does not have “mineshell” in the name.

And you skip the main issue, FI-T isn’t as busted as any other fi-t or hei or hef.
Just keep your delusion on.

@PercussionCap

Japan does not have FI-T. There is an FI shell but it’s not in any belt worth using.

oh sorry mr. nerd, let’s see our hef-t round with the same fuckin filler.

@PercussionCap

None of the benefits of firing shells other players can’t see, with all the downsides of a belt which is almost 50% useless.

I will an actual nerd and tell you it’s not %50
and second AP is USELESS currently, it is an obstable you saw the pictures from where it is supposed to be more effective.

@PercussionCap

How is this relevant when every .50cal belt I use has at most one incendiary round that cannot penetrate things?

no saving this amount of mental retardat*on…
Inlines are always behind skin, radials or more exact air cooled radial are exposed.

And AP alone still has a fire chance vs engines, how does the LKk/42 make so much fires with the tracer belt of only AP-T ? It rolls the dice many times.

@PercussionCap

Read all you want, didn’t change the fact that the snail decided that other country’s cannon with very similar stats just does good damage and yours doesn’t. Should have read harder!

You don’t see the issue here? I look for useful info that ends up lying to me?

By your rules you can’t complain shit, enjoy your zeros to 7.0 and your army planes + 2.0 overBRs, Snail said so! Should have picked a different nation!

@PercussionCap

Given that I now main japan I have tried every belt many times. Universal is better. Especially with fewer guns such as on J1N, and in anything with 4 or more it’s once again better since so many tracers get in the way of aiming and give away exactly where you’re shooting even more.

So scared of tracers, any actual second argument to justify not picking tracers outside of “I don’t want tracers”, because we know AP is completely outclassed even if we tilt stuff in it’s favour.

@PercussionCap

Which hasn’t been the case for the majority of the game’s existence. Regardless it still does great damage, and RPM and magazine size are also among the best.

It’s no magazine, it’s a belt, also RPM?

Let’s see.

ho-5 850RPM
B-20M 800RPM
ShVAK 800RPM
M3 750RPM
hispano Mk.IV 750 RPM
FMK-HS-45 750 RPM
B-20S 750 RPM
Akan m/45 725 RPM
ShVAK(S) 720 RPM
hispano 404 700RPM

mg151/20 700RPM

Akan M/41 630 RPM
AN/M2 600 RPM
NS-23 600RPM
hispano Mk.I 600 RPM

mg FF/M 520RPM

Type 99 Mk.1 516 RPM
Type 99 Mk.2 490 RPM
Oerlikon FF 468 RPM

All of these cannons pack less filler than our mg151 and mg FF friends, and all of them beat the mg151/20, tie mg FF/M or surpass both cannons in terms of ballistics.

Keep lying under your teeth pal, just tell me you scared we model a Japanese prop’s weakness, you can barely comprehend trying to leverage nerfs to move planes down, when I looked at the Ki-43 III’s enormous nerf I only saw 1 reddit post about it.
I suppose my forum post makes the second mention of it in 4 years

If we make every cannon 30mm levels of demolition it won’t suffer from poor damage.

And still jumping over ballistics, the only 2 facts that makes players choose the stealth belt are retained broken damage and usable ballistics. The moment FI-T is modeled like the rest of rounds it ends with tracers taking over.

@PercussionCap

It IS the better belt. Ironically it only has a small advantage if you are literally incapable of landing more than one shell on your enemy, which is unlikely to kill them.

Perhaps do a little less reading and a little more playing the game.

Local idiot punished for picking the logical option!

how about you diversify your plane collection too? Just because you find sucess in the A6M since half you clips are on A6Ms, doesn’t mean you automatically are a god at war thunder, you are currently twisting the entire game around removing upsides of armor and weaknesses of lower fillers explosive rounds.

You simply try to reward mechanical skill but ignore long term planning and tactical play around each cannon and thus aircraft aspects.

@PercussionCap

This is also the case in-game? lol

this AA truck was taken out via crew kill by machinegunning it with my .30cal and he literally burst into flames

The point flew over and crashed into my window it seems.

Imagine I shoot at a KV-1E with a 4.0 Sherman, Since I whined so much now my pen is +3km at 500m and my explosive filler is 1 kilo of TNT.
KV-1E tries to use it’s superior armor as a last line of defe… and FUCK YOU, I shot first so I win because I shot first despite I never tried to aim at a driver port or shot the cannon to disable it! I shot first! My confetti please! Yohoo!

@PercussionCap

someday when I bother going up russia tree

Do it, you seriously lack perspective here, I want you to see a full FI-T belt at 800RPM.

@PercussionCap

one hit

Can you link the study again? I lost it

And also same argument as Ki-27, one managed to take down a P-51C in one burst so I suppose 7.7 now deals damage of a 30mm!

@PercussionCap

making yourself worse to get a more satisfying fight =/= only playing meta or whatever

idk what your point here is, that’s almost the exact opposite of what I said

You told me to make myself worse which includes to play off-meta to be more fun? I just need the enemy to also do the same btw.

@PercussionCap

MG151/15 has much better ballistics and AP, its HEF-T does good damage to a wide area which ensures everything around where you hit gets damaged and provides extremely reliable damage

mg151/20 FI-T also deal exact damge in the same pattern? And now ballistics matter when you told mg151/20 user that the ballistics disadvantage wasn’t significant?

@PercussionCap

Which hasn’t been the case for the majority of the game’s existence.

@PercussionCap

vs current HE which is unreliable many times and the level of damage done is unnoticeable until they are actually shot down

because one can’t process 0.3 secs and see you wing take off or your tail wave a bye bye.

@PercussionCap

Why are you aiming for radiators when their engine and pilot are right there and readily identifiable? Why do fire extinguishers matter if you can ensure the enemy cannot continue flying?

I believe I told you (poor penetration or no AP shells loaded vs a heavily armored opponent)
Where does armor concentrate, near the cockpit dumbass.

@PercussionCap

the thickest armor is just 12.7mm and even MG151/20 can penetrate that

The third dimension exists

There’s 2 12.7mm plates and a 9mm plate, a shell needs to pen +30mm of armor to reach a pilot.

@PercussionCap

the engines are not armored AT ALL

Attack from the front, it’s where you said AP shells shine because evil control surface eats my planebloweruper 9000 round with 6g of TNT equivalent.

crazy to think you would actually think to take a headon from an A-26.

@PercussionCap

the singular gunner only has protection from the rear

The threedees strikes again and provide +25mm of armor for it.

@PercussionCap

Yes and the worst Zero by far is the one weighed down with armor and self-sealing tanks, ain’t that funny? It’s so heavy it climbs terribly and no longer turns that well, on top of horrible acceleration.

If only that armor helped it tho

@PercussionCap

That’s inaccurate btw, there is supposed to be another bulletproof glass pane below this one protecting the bottom half of the pilot

“completely exposed from the shoulders and below”

@PercussionCap

Regardless, you cannot armor an entire plane and there’s plenty to shoot. All its fuel tanks have only minor protection from the front.

So then that justifies the wings needs to come off? smarts 🧠

@PercussionCap

Meanwhile with .50cals which have NO explosive shells:

Want to nerf them go ahead we can trade the structural bit for the weird fire formula Killa came with to make it so velocity affects fire chance (less random fire snipes but more reliable fires in close passes), said “sudden destruction” only happens when the converge point strikes to full effect.

[dannaryan-psn]

Made another video montage to demonstrate the stupid damage modelling we’re currently suffering with.

- YouTube

How on earth you can defend this is beyond me. 2x Shvak rounds can decimate aircraft, 4x Hispano rounds (two taps of the trigger) will rip both wings off of aircraft. Potentially just ONE 20mm Hispano chopped my entire tail unit off of my P-108 bomber and there’s some Japanese shenanigans there as well such as 2x Type 99 rounds (one tap of the trigger) lopping P-47 tails off and completely removing an I-185’s wing.

Oh and don’t forget the .50cal Breda’s ability to literally cause B-17’s to explode and rip fighter wings off in a small terribly aimed burst. Don’t think that’s a one-off in regards to the bomber neither, I’ve got plenty more videos where that .50 with the piddly explosive filler has torn bomber wings clean off in one pass.

It is completely and utterly broken. All 20mm’s punch like 30mm’s no matter which cannon you use making the larger calibre completely redundant. Considering what’s on video here please tell me what use the slower/harder to aim 30mm’s have? Because you can’t kill much faster than two rounds/one tap of the trigger.

[lynx15]

@dannaryan-psn

Made another video montage to demonstrate the stupid damage modelling we’re currently suffering with.

the most funny part is how inconsistent it is
some planes can still fly with half a wing missing and be a threat in arb while others just go in a flatspin the moment something hits your wingtip
like you cant defend anything there

@dannaryan-psn

2x Shvak rounds can decimate aircraft

on is more than enough

@dannaryan-psn

Oh and don’t forget the .50cal Breda’s ability to literally cause B-17’s to explode and rip fighter wings off in a small terribly aimed burst.

berezin ubs does the same bs

@dannaryan-psn

It is completely and utterly broken. All 20mm’s punch like 30mm’s no matter which cannon you use making the larger calibre completely redundant

main reason i hate the dmg we have rn
but that doesnt mean that 50cals are underpowered at all

[Gnza10091441]

@dannaryan-psn

All 20mm’s punch like 30mm’s

A B-17 tanking multiple 30mm M-Gesch. hits with 85g of HE. Yet, as we’ve seen before, a single 6g hit from a 20mm ShVAK would’ve been more than enough to cut its tail right off. Again, how is this justified from a realism standpoint?

[Thodin]

Was arcade match, but nonetheless: A cal50 burst cut off one wing and the plane itself into two. It was like half a second enemy fire and the plane was cut in three parts. One wing and tail section shot off. With no explosives, just ball ammo.

I even managed to cut off a wing with Hurricane sporting 8mm MGs or something like this. Its rediculous and should be adjusted. Its about realism and unfun dogfights. Its also nigh impossible to grind assists, since enemy planes get killed too easily, even with the weakest rifle calibre weapons.

[iegaatdao]

@Thodin

Its also nigh impossible to grind assists

Pro tip

Spoiler

Most tasks allow you assists from AI, make sure to pepper some AI planes and even some BTRs to atleast cause a leak and try to make sure your team survives to the near end where they start to eat away tickets, your teamates will automatically collect the assists for you even if you die

[FeetPics]

WarThunder is not a realistic game. It never has been.

[iegaatdao]

Why do I need documents to justify changes? Why is the game marketed as realistic?

Skipping all of this under “WT can’t add more realistic damage because it was never realitic” won’t help because we even proved how current damage still affects gameplay in a negative way.

Looking for more powerful fillers means loading weaker belts, Type 99 as an example.
Thinking and planning in the long run isn’t rewarded when I can just headon my way out of almost every problem or simply execute my enemy with the worst place shot known to mankind.
Looking into an aircraft armor profile is useless, loading a little more AP because you think armor is supposed to be an obstacle is actually you handcapping yourself

Incredible game design, punish the player who tries to follow logic.

[FeetPics]

@iegaatdao

Skipping all of this under “WT can’t add more realistic damage because it was never realitic” won’t help because we even proved how current damage still affects gameplay in a negative way.

This is just your opinion. And it is completely at odds with the rest of the playerbase. I have shown this time and time again. This whole thread was started when MG.151s were at a relative low point and there isn’t a single level of bad damage from the past that hasn’t been justified in this thread.

We could revert the damage to whatever it was pre-realshatter and it would still be too much!

[Gnza10091441]

@FeetPics

WarThunder is not a realistic game. It never has been.

Here’s an idea: what if we made two separate game modes? Let’s call one “Air Arcade” with Hollywood-style damage so people with low attention spans can get their instant gratification, and another called “Air Realistic” with actually grounded, accurate damage models.

[FeetPics]

Okay but this Air Realistic mode should require the use of a joystick and first person view. It should also have prop torque effects turned on. Get rid of mouse aim and idiot-mode red markers.

[Gnza10091441]

Honestly, it wouldn’t hurt for Air Realistic to be a bit more like Air Simulator. It’s supposed to be a middle ground between two styles of gameplay, but it feels way too arcadey. Let’s remove the markers and make mouse aim less stable.

[FeetPics]

Remove 3rd person view too. Real pilots didn’t have 360 view IRL.

[Omarb13legends]

Now for Arcade mode, I can 100% agree with leaving the current damage model how it is to some degree, because it’s Arcade.

But in relation to the Realistic and SIm modes, it should be adjusted heavily.

@FeetPics

Get rid of mouse aim and idiot-mode red markers.

Mouse Aim is the accessibility portion that allows for the ease of access, so obviously no.
Red Markers also prevent the match from being drawn out for god knows how long since manually spotting aircraft would quite literally take ages.

The spotting system is already finnicky enough so sometimes you don’t even see people until it’s too late.

[FeetPics]

@Omarb13legends

Mouse Aim is the accessibility portion that allows for the ease of access, so obviously no.
Red Markers also prevent the match from being drawn out for god knows how long since manually spotting aircraft would quite literally take ages.

The spotting system is already finnicky enough so sometimes you don’t even see people until it’s too late.

They are just crutches for people that don’t like realism. You can play sim with a mouse and keyboard just fine. There is no excuse for unrealistic semi-arcade mode. Not wanting to play sim is just a skill issue because more realism is automatically better.

[iegaatdao]

@FeetPics

Not wanting to play sim is just a skill issue

Not wanting armor, self sealing tanks, engine fire systems, learning to actually hold an advantageous position, learn each aircraft general armor layout and weakspots to matter because one just wants to fend itself by mechanical skill alone is also a skill issue, on the “I can’t plan 30 seconds forward”.

You want your clickly aimlab skill to mean everything and call everybody bad otherwise, even if for example play arcade doesn’t mean they are automatically ass.

Because you do realize this raises the skill floor?

[FeetPics]

Buddy I play real SIMULATORs like Il-2 where it takes 650+ rounds of .50 cals to bring down a Bf.109 and I do it with a joystick.

- YouTube

Why don’t you play a real SIMULATOR and move away from Mickey Mouse-Aim mode?

[RedEye_ツ]

You’d have to play Air Arcade too man, as a bomber main, your gameplay consists of pressing spacebar endlessly, the epitome of instant gratification.
You shouldn’t be dogfighting people in it either cuz it’s not realistic & you cannot be switching from pilot to gunner with the press of one key either.

[iegaatdao]

@FeetPics

Buddy I play real SIMULATORs like Il-2 where it takes 650+ rounds of .50 cals to bring down a Bf.109 and I do it with a joystick.

am I asking for +650 rounds of 50cal? or am I simply asking for 20mm to deal damage of a 20mm and not a +30mm cannon?

And I can’t give less of a shit if you play Il-2, talk here, about War thunder, and tell me how current damage benefits game design.

[FeetPics]

It allows people to shoot down other planes. That is a good thing. As opposed to old damage system where some cannons did damage and other cannons didn’t.