Can you guys move m26 back to 6.3？ Compare with T26e5, T34, T26e1, It has no advantages!

[Aegis270]

@Morvran

That might be why then. Armour and optics are factors to consider, but if the M26 can one shot anything with ease at 5.3/5.7 then it probably should move up a bit. Not too mention anything at 5.3-6.0 trying to take out a 6.3 heavy tank.

The M26 most certainly can not oneshot anything at 5.3/5.7 with ease. The American 90mm isn’t bad, but it’s certainly not a great gun. Hell, it’s the exact same gun and ammo as the M36 at 5.3. There are a wide variety of tanks it struggles with, and even one that it cannot even engage frontally, even within this full downtier bracket we’re giving it (IV/70). At it’s own tier, let alone an uptier, it really struggles with a lot of tanks.

Meanwhile, the armor really isn’t all that impressive. It’s overall pretty similar to the Tiger I. Slightly better on the UFP, at the cost of weakspots on the LFP, slightly stronger on the side for a bit better angling, much weaker turret (With an ammo rack you can’t hide in it). Almost all 5.3 guns can get through it somewhere, either through the weak spots on the turret, the machine gun port, or the corners of the LFP. Even the Russian 85mm can get through at 500m with careful aim.

[EddieVanHalo]

I think the whole area of late WW2 early post war USA needs attention and the amount of posts made about this subject support that.
One of the things about a WW2/Early Cold war break away was to give those tanks a home and a relevance. M26.Jumbo and even those that closely follow are no better than the German stuff at 6.7 and should be packaged to face those era vehicles. Pershing could be 6.0 BR and it would work about right .

USA is seems criminally ignored 6-7 BR

[AurenKarach]

Between the Bulldog, the M50, the M56, the T92, and apocalyptic CAS, American 6-7 BR has plenty of tools to deal with uptier situations where the heavies would struggle. And several of these heavies are extremely competent too. They are among the strongest lineups America has.

The problem is not American 6.7, the problem is that the M26 is not good enough to measure up to the excellent American 6.7. It’s the same issue suffered by the Tiger II P and the Ferdinand in the German equivalent lineup, they’re out of place because the opportunity cost of spawning them over any other choice is always too high.

[FlipAllTheTables]

@Aegis270

and even one that it cannot even engage frontally, even within this full downtier bracket we’re giving it (IV/70).

[KillaKiwi]

@Aegis270

The M26 most certainly can not oneshot anything at 5.3/5.7 with ease. The American 90mm isn’t bad, but it’s certainly not a great gun.

@FlipAllTheTables

The 90mm is a fantastic gun. Not only can you penetrate 90% of vehicles from the front between 5.7-6.7 with APHE, the other 10% can be penetrated with APCR that will still deal a great amount of damage to other targets.
Not to mention that those vehicles that require APCR from the front have in general very poor mobility and all can be easily killed with side shots.

[Aegis270]

Fair call, I forgot the angled modifiers allow it through the IV/70 flat on. Not if he’s angled though, and not through the areas protected by the addon tracks. Angling with the right side facing a Pershing, particularly at range, makes it quite a tricky shot. But that’s just quibbling at this point, a Pershing cannot even face a IV/70 with the current MM.

As for the gun, it’s perfectly adequate in downtiers, but at it’s own tier and above, it really starts to struggle. Espcially at it’s new tier at 6.7. The Tiger II H, the German heavy TDs, the SU-122-54, the Tortoise, these are all tanks it seriously struggles with. APCR can get through them with good shots, but it’s not a round you’re likely to have preloaded, and even then it can be tricky. Trying to kill a Tortoise with APCR is a nightmare.

That’s not even touching uptiers, where it can go up against even more problematic targets. The IS-3 and IS-4 chiefly, where not even APCR can help, but also the Obj 268, the Maus, T-54, Conqueror, Ho-Ri Production and Foch. Now, these can be disabled with APCR gradually, over time, with excellent shot placements, and there are more flexible tanks you can bring into uptiers. But I have severe issue with calling a gun “fantastic” when it stuggles this hard against tanks it can see even in mild uptiers.

It’s also worth mentioning that all of these tanks that require having APCR preloaded and very precise aim, can in turn just center mass blap the Pershing right through it’s strongest armor and delete it.

[FlipAllTheTables]

@Aegis270

and not through the areas protected by the addon tracks.

Track armor provides a maximum 15 mm effectiveness, no matter the angle. Seeing as the Pz.IV/70(V) superstructure front is 162 mm effective, that means 177 mm total where the main armor has track armor in front of it. M82 will still go through, albeit at a smaller distance.

[KillaKiwi]

@Aegis270

But that’s just quibbling at this point, a Pershing cannot even face a IV/70 with the current MM.

They can. M26 is 6.7, Jadgpanzer IV/70(V) is 5.7.

@Aegis270

The IS-3 and IS-4 chiefly, where not even APCR can help, but also the Obj 268, the Maus, T-54, Conqueror, Ho-Ri Production and Foch.

If 280mm pen APCR can’t take them out, nor will APHE with 230mm pen.

@Aegis270

It’s also worth mentioning that all of these tanks that require having APCR preloaded and very precise aim, can in turn just center mass blap the Pershing right through it’s strongest armor and delete it.

The playstyle of US tanks in general revolves around avoiding head-on confrontations, unless it’s a heavy. So in general it’s quite possible to switch to APCR when it is required. Even when pre-loaded, 90mm APCR can still take out a large number of vehicles in one shot or at least disable them.

The strongest armor of the M26 is on the turret. In a hull down position it can bounce quite a number of rounds. Also which vehicles are you using as comparison?
At 6.7 you mostly see heavy tanks and TDs with powerfull guns. The Panther II and T-44/T-44-100 can bounce powerful rounds from the UFP but have weak turrets in comparison.
So vehicles being able to penetrate the M26 is nothing special. Rarely have mediums enough frontal armor to resist other vehicles of the same or higher BR.

[gabehoward21]

Track armor base thickness is 20 and can be effective depending on angle

Pls excuse sh pic my phone is garbo

[FlipAllTheTables]

Doesn’t matter. Not only do they have a 0.75 multiplier for their RHA equivalent (much like how CHA has a 0.94 multiplier), they also have a hard coded maximum effective thickness of 15 mm. Track armor cannot be stronger than 15 mm against projectiles.

[gabehoward21]

Ah more armor viewer bs

[Aegis270]

@FlipAllTheTables

M82 will still go through, albeit at a smaller distance.

Only so long as the IV/70 isn’t using any gun depression at all, in which case you need to be within 100m for the round to go through.

@KillaKiwi

They can. M26 is 6.7, Jadgpanzer IV/70(V) is 5.7.

Again, fair, I forgot that one was included in the BR changes to Germany 5.3/5.7.

@KillaKiwi

If 280mm pen APCR can’t take them out, nor will APHE with 230mm pen.

The IS-3 has some trapshots that work for 230mm APHE, and while the IS-4M is off the table, the later list are all tanks that APCR can get through, but they’re you’re left trying to whackamole pretty spaced out crew, much like the Tortoise. You can only pen the rangefinder on the Foch, the optic port of the 268, the casemate of the Ho-Ri. These are all shots that, when made with APHE, will certainly cripple or even oneshot the tank, but with APCR it’s far from certain. I know the 90mm APCR is better than most, I use it to deal with Jadgpanthers and other heavy German casemates, but it’s disengenuous to pretend that this makes up for the lacking APHE performance compared to every other (non-T-44) 6.7 gun.

@KillaKiwi

The strongest armor of the M26 is on the turret. In a hull down position it can bounce quite a number of rounds. Also which vehicles are you using as comparison?

It’s also weak on the turret, anything stronger than the Russian 85mm can punch right through the turret from either side of the mantlet. The left side covers the gunner and commander, while the right side has a ready rack. It’s alway my go-to shot against Pershings (particularly Super Pershings).

As for what I’m comparing it to, there isn’t really a close match. The closest is the T26E5, which as discussed earlier in the thread is just a better version of the Pershing with armor that will stand up to APHE outside very specific spots, even in an uptier. Compared to the T-44, it’s laughly less mobile, which is what hurts the gun performance worse. It’s hard to flank in a tank with heavy tank level mobility, and it’s especially awkward when you’re so vulnerable when not hulldown. It’s got a longer than average reload for the tier, it’s got one of the worst ammo stowage layouts in the game, and compared to the guns it’s most commonly facing, it’s armor doesn’t hold up.

@KillaKiwi

Rarely have mediums enough frontal armor to resist other vehicles of the same or higher BR.

This is true at almost any other BR bracket, but not here. The Panthers (including the II), the T-44s, the Cent Mk1, and the Pershings are all medium tanks with armor that can be effective. Which is partially why it’s so out of place that the Pershing (And T-44) are at such a high BR that their armor doesn’t consistently work. They both pay in other aspects for armor (The Pershing moreso due to it’s heavy tank levels of mobility), but in return they don’t recieve armor that can consistently work.

[EddieVanHalo]

@AurenKarach

Between the Bulldog, the M50, the M56, the T92, and apocalyptic CAS, American 6-7 BR has plenty of tools to deal with uptier situations where the heavies would struggle. And several of these heavies are extremely competent too. They are among the strongest lineups America has.

The problem is not American 6.7, the problem is that the M26 is not good enough to measure up to the excellent American 6.7. It’s the same issue suffered by the Tiger II P and the Ferdinand in the German equivalent lineup, they’re out of place because the opportunity cost of spawning them over any other choice is always too high.

I just think for what you get at 6.3 from tanks like the T20 you would get more for Germany at 6BR straight. Same with the 76 Jumbo. The Pershing also seems overrated in comparison to Germany or Russia. It seems the issue is that stats are used as opposed to running Nations in comparison to each other.

Could this be the reason for the claimed disparity in top tier? Should Warthunder spend more time in making all the vehicles relate to each other rather than stat base them and just hope they will make sense when they meet on the field or just pray CAS will take up the slack?

[教练 我想打雷神]

mate, it has no advantages means it needs to be move to lower BR, t26e5 has better armor, t26e1 has better main gun, T34 has better armor and gun, m26 has nothing, shouldn’t it move back？even there is m26e1，it is all the same with m26 but has a better 90mm gun which is on 6.7 too, so why do i play m26 but these tanks？

[quartas121]

The IS-3 beats the tiger 2 and t34 in every way except for raw pen, which goes to the t34. It balances that out with crazy good he filler. It’s faster, better armored, smaller, and has a higher 1 hit kill probability on a penetrating shot than the tiger 2 or t34. If either gets moved up, the IS-3 should go up with them

[TyTheGuy27]

I’d disagree, a .3 BR difference is reasonable. At 7.7 you’ve got the IS-4, T-10A, M103, and Conq which all outperform the IS-3 considerably or massively. The IS-3 is decently mobile and very well-armoured, but it lacks penetration and reload rate and has weak spots that can be exploited much easier than for example the IS-4 which is otherwise essentially the same vehicle.

[O_HOgameplay]

@TyTheGuy27

The best 6.7 medium IMO

Same. I’ve had a very good experience with it, when i recently spaded it. Along with the E5, they are just absolute monsters.

@TyTheGuy27

I’d advise using APCR more (the 90mm M3 has basically the only good APCR in the game)

I only used it in the E5 once, and that APCR is still useless. I rather aim with APHE, or flank.

@TyTheGuy27

On the note of the T34, that’s one of a number of 6.7s that need to go up to 7.0.

Something with a long reload solidshot, with worse armor than the E5? nah.

@Aegis270

Not if he’s angled though

Angling in a Panzer 4/70 is equal to certain death.

@Aegis270

The IS-3 and IS-4 chiefly

And many other tanks have issues with them. Even higehr BR ones.

@Aegis270

but also the Obj 268

At close ranges you can pen the flat plate next to the gun. APCR can also pen it at long ranges.
Cupola can be also penned by APHE at any ranges, and it will blow up the ammo rack.

@Aegis270

Maus

APCR can pen the turret even at medium ranges, and APHE can pen the side at close ranges.

@Aegis270

T-54

You mean the one with the crap turret that can be penned even by the US 76mm?

@Aegis270

Conqueror

Which is just an awful tank, and the chance of seeing it in a match is the same as the chance of the average americal soldier seeing a Jagdtiger in WWII.
You can also pen it’s lower plate even at distance, while it basically can’t pen you in the mantlet, because carbide APDS being just worse than APCR (and hitting the cheeks with it’s horrible accuracly won’t be easy).

@Aegis270

Ho-Ri Production

APRC to the cheeks.

@Aegis270

Foch

Shoot the MG cupola, which will take out at least 2 (or even 3) crew, and blow up the ammo.

All these examples are in an uptier, against heavily armored tanks. You are a medium tank. You are not supposed to engage those tanks head on.

[ID_Heaven]

@O_HOgameplay

Along with the E5, they are just absolute monsters.

But M26 is unarmoured compared to others in 6.7

[KillaKiwi]

@ID_Heaven

But M26 is unarmoured compared to others in 6.7

Compared to heavy tanks and tank destroyers? Surprise.
Only the T-44 has somewhat better armor at the expense of having a less capble gun.

I think the argument for a single vehicle not being as competetive is pretty pointless.
For 6.3 the M26 has better armor than an IS-2 with much better RoF, traverse speed and gun depression.

It’s simply a compression problem. Most tanks at 6.7 and above just need their BR increased by 0.3.

[ID_Heaven]

@KillaKiwi

Compared to heavy tanks and tank destroyers?

Compared to T26E5.