Can you disable the overpressure on APHE rounds?


God i miss when this game actually took skill, instead of Tigers running around with shells that don’t even have to properly pen your tank to nuke your crew.

This wouldn’t have even broke the breach a year or two ago, but now the Tiger babies get magic shells that can delete anything they shoot at.

Reminder that the PZGR. Round should actually be SAP, because that round is just the early war thrown together AP round that the Germans made to stop KV1s. Its quite literally just a AP penetrator head thrown on a normal 8.8 HE round. Which makes it a SAP round in the eyes of Gaijin.

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Every APHE shell is Semi-Armour Piercing by definition btw.
That aside, Pzgr.'s explosive filler mass makes up only 1.77% of its total mass (168g/9500g)

Also I have no clue what you mean with “just ap head on normal he round” tbh, since the “normal HE round” has an explosive filler mass of 900g (>5.3 times the filler mass of Pzgr.), with a projectile mass of 9kg (thus 10% of total weight)

{534D4294-8081-4B87-819A-299B2D9B70AB}
0.63% HE (64g/10200g)

{E1DB2BA5-C14E-42C9-9D71-EEBB5DE03A7F}
1.77% HE (168g/9500g)

{068A72CC-C395-43E8-A936-85843889BE0B}
10% HE (900g/9000g)

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APHE shells really need a significantly higher minimum HE filler mass before they qualify for overpressure.

Gaijin’s letting the equivalent of a small hand grenade instantly kill a tank without penetration when that wouldn’t even hurt some of the weakest armor.

What should be done is make the minimum filler requirement much larger for hard walled ammo (APHE and SAP) so only actually big unwieldy guns (Jagdtiger, Su-100Y, etc) are given the extra leeway to counter their below average reload.

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APHE rounds shouldn’t overpressure anyways. The majority of them had enough filler to break up the shell body and that’s about it.

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Gaijin doesn’t seem to understand that most of the energy of the explosive was expended to break the Shell body.

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I actually made a suggestion once.

Of course it wasn’t approved because 90% of SUGGESTIONS that could alter gameplay simply don’t get approved in the first place.

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It’s the same old story. If it creates an imbalance that requires changing the Br for some realistic reason, bad. If it’s an imbalance created artificially to please some players who spend a lot of money, good.

???

translator’s error, I meant Br.

If Gaijin made APHE users actually have to think before they fired the YouTubers would no doubt scream and get it changed back.

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yeah, god forbid a tank not be able to one shot one of the most well armored MBTs in the BR bracket by Brainlessly shooting the Cupola.

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Genuinely, Overpressure is so Overtuned its not even funny.

THERE HAVE BEEN BRADLEYS GETTING HIT WITH 125 HE AND HEAT ROUNDS AND DRIVING OFF IN UKRAINE WITH NO ISSUE.

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Says Overpressure over-tuned
Dies in a Vickers Mk.11, a light vehicle with no armor… unlike a Bradley

Is this bait? The unstabilized tank in a full uptier had to thread the needle to hit your cupola before you could click pretty much anywhere on his hull or turret in your stabilized tank, and what he did was the “brainless shot”?

APHE needs fixed, YESTERDAY.

Some of the heaviest armored tanks EVER BUILT, should not be getting cupola sniped by no skill shells.

meanwhile i have to pump 2-3 rounds into that T-44 to even HOPE to kill it. (And that is even dubious due to Russia’s magic armor that can be 10mm thick, yet bounce any shell known to man)

And What the hell is this total bull of APHE just nuking Transmissions and engines upon penning ANY tank?

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The community vote killed any hope of this happening.

If they did, they would just go up in BR until they meet stuff that can kill them from the front anyway.

I’m not sure, but I think it started around when the vote was held. The proposal was to nerf the sphere of death but buff spalling/fragments. The sphere of death was not nerfed, but the spalling buff stayed.

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@FlipAllTheTables, who doesn’t have enough activity time in the game recently to post a direct reply, sent me a DM with their thoughts. I am quoting them verbatim here.

To go more indepth, to attempt to compensate for the fact APHE rounds deal damage with the explosion Gaijin gives APHE rounds a generally weaker armor spall preset, meaning that the spall created by armor penetration itself when using APHE rounds is of lower amount and less damaging when compared to solid shot rounds. Gaijin’s proposal was that if explosion spall got nerfed by limiting it into designated sections, the spall from armor penetration would be buffed to match solid shot rounds.

Armor spall presets example

This is the armor spall preset that is used for 90mm M82 APCBC-HE, which you can see in the “secondaryShattersPreset” section.

image

In comparison, 90mm T33 APBC and other solid shot rounds above a caliber of I believe 20mm use the “ap_large_caliber” preset.
image

This preset applies only to spall generated from the armor during penetration, and the “ap” preset generally produces less spall that also deals less damage individually.

This code comes from the DEV server where you could test the APHE changes using protection analysis, and toggle the new damage on and off. Again this is for 90mm M82. This “testProperties” section is large and contains basically everything from the change in the armor spall preset change to the actual sectioning of the explosion spall cones.

As you can see, when the “testProperties” were toggled on the armor spall preset of M82 was changed to match that of T33.

However since the spall cone nerfs did not happen, this buff to armor spall didn’t either. The only buff that APHE did receive was the “warhead integrity” buff where if an APHE round has sufficiently little TNT in its composition the nose of the shot body will continue traveling forward after the explosion.

Transmissions and Engines are just absurdly weak for some reason, they die from the smallest fragments. Even crew have a higher survivability that the average warthunder transmission.

Additionally, I answered them with the following message:

Hey mate. Nice hearing from you. I will post your reply to the thread later when I’m at my pc, verbatim of course.

I do think something changed specifically in relation to transmission and engine damage though. I can’t remember when it was, but after one update it became really noticeable - you would shoot someone in the turret from the frontal aspect and in the back their engine would die. Do you remember what update this was by any chance?

To which they replied:

Nope, it’s one of those things that just short of appeared, and even going through the datamines on it makes little sense as from what I can tell the hitpoints of the actual transmission and engine modules only went up, not down. I could be looking at the wrong thing, but it could also just be an outright bug. Again, “even crew have a higher survivability than the average warthunder transmission”, and that’s not an exaggeration, I’ve seen plenty of cupola shots where some crew take multiple fragments and live compared to the transmission shaft taking a single one and destroying itself.

I do have the inkling memory that it’s something that came quite a bit after the proposed APHE changes though, it feels far more recent.

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Oddly enough, they did state that the APHE fragmentation damage was increased to solid shot levels, regardless of the outcome of the vote.


APHE genuinely needs a nerf, preferably as soon as possible.

^

Already said this, will repeat it. Not that I’m against an APHE nerf, just saying that you specifically won’t get what you want, because your Tutel will go up in BR until it can be penned frontally.