Can we stop throwing bones to air abusers in ground realistic?

I don’t remember that I have said that it doesn’t require skill or knowledge, please cite me on that.

Everything in this game requires some input from the player, there is just difference in it when it comes about what we are talking.

As I have said here:

When You are bad, no matter what given tools, You are not going to do anything.

All depends about what ‘cannons’ we are talking about.

If player is not using his tool properly, he won’t be able to score a kill, no matter what he is given. The difference is in the required input from him to do that.

I’m amazed that some people belive that I’m against having combined gameplay or that I hate planes, lmao.

Agreeing with yourself is a bit of an ick

2 Likes

I’d like to apologize for this one. I got you mixed up with someone else. So let me make a shift to something you did say.

Do you know under what conditions a 12.7mm M2 (late, 6.3) can penetrate the T-34 at 3.3?

Again, I apologize. I got you confused with O_HO. It is hard to keep most of the opinions to each singular person sometimes. Much reading, many arguments.

12.7mm from F6F can pen T-34

Tantrum?

Sorry that pointing out things and providing evidence for it is a ‘tantrum’ for You, lmao.

This is what I call a tantrum.

1 Like

It’s not a tantrum, they are 100% correct…

1 Like

Under what conditions? Unlike tanks, the pen values of aircraft can’t be taken at the 0m, or 100m pen values since you’d be quite not existing immediately after. Saying a .50 on an F6F has 30mm of pen just doesn’t apply to aircraft’s firing ranges.

If You are having a problem that people are not agreeing with You and call You out lying, then that is a tantrum (and this is mostly what I do in this topics ;))

2 Likes

I agreed with him straight away. I’ve not seen many people agree with you except the usual suspects.

2 Likes

500m from above, You can kill the crew from a turret (You can even check it in game if You want).

This system would give everyone access to fighters with guns only. Payload and attack aircraft should be earned as they pose a much higher threat level than fighters.

1 Like

Absolutely correct, 500m, but only in one small spot above the breach and not the entire turret. You won’t be able to be in a recoverable dive being perpendicular to the ground at 500m. Also, the .50s are going in at an angle because of the gun’s targeting range, so you are potentially missing anything you aim at because of those angles.

The point of view I hold is that you can’t simply take a plane and instantly kill everything. People (myself included) strafe lightly armored vehicles all the time and it results in a critical. I’ve overheated my guns in order to get as many rounds into a target as possible and it has done damage, but not destroyed any modules or killed any crew. If you check the damage model of the M109 with .50 cals (and 20mm ap, I’d have to recheck), you can hit crewmembers with a heatshot and not kill them. So it would take multiple .50s to kill a single crewmember, headshots or not. I just want to make the point that simply penetrating a tank does not translate to easily killing a tank.

2 Likes

If planes were able to spawn from the beginning with/without weaponary You are just going to create another Air RB.

You want one target destroyed like that or how many? Because I have dont it many times and it is not even that hard.

Why do you think people play planes in Ground Rb?

There is multiple reasons for it.

  1. They don’t like Air RB as it is.
  2. It is easier to play planes in Ground RB than it is in Air RB.
  3. They like being in a vechicle which can’t be defeated by the target they are destroying

And many more.

2 Likes

Making another gamemode to be focused mostly on Air is not that great especially when tankers don’t have a place to play on their own.

All open-tops and lightly armored tanks are going to be even less played not to mention maps being made even smaller as only with that, tankers are going to have any tank vs tank fights before air arrives to wipe them out.

Air RB has a spotting mechanic, which is unavoidable, Ground/Naval RB does not. Air RB can’t really support not having that mechanic because of the size of the battlespace.

Playing planes in Ground/Naval RB is harder than Air RB. Ground targets in Air RB are mostly static, or the convoys move very slowly in a known path. Those ground targets are also spotted all the time. Planes don’t have spotting markers, so you must have much much more situational awareness to be successful in Ground RB.

I would like to add that kills in Ground RB for aircraft are actually worth much less than in Air RB, so every person that brings planes into Ground RB are taking large reward cut for their time in that plane. Those people must enjoy some aspect of what Ground RB can offer to accept that reward efficiency loss.

I understand the basis of the argument on vehicles being able to defend themselves, but this is one of the things I see as a team dynamic problem. People play Warthunder as an FPS instead of a team game. If coordination was at all encrouaged, then there would be the possibilty of SPAA being present more during the game to help combat the aircraft. Planes do have an advantage over tanks in being able to choose targets and avoid them, but my SP cost plan aims to mitigate the most serious advantages, bombs/rockets/missiles, to players that have done well in their ground vehicles.

3 Likes

Ground RB has spotting mechanism for Ground units (scouting and markers when someone gets hitted).

Players in Ground units are not always on the move and most maps force them to go to certain positions (caps).

People like killing players more than AI units.

Teams are made on random.

If there was a place for pure tankers, we could have had a proper discussion about teams.

So the same as now but just after longer time?

This whole 1000 sp limit like Sim is just extra and limits what players can do with ground vehicles too. Might as well make the system like Ground Arcade, but you call out a plane you picked instead of a random one.

Not like Air RBs. The Air RB system is equivalent to Ground Arcades spotting.

I missed that the vehicles in Ground also have full damage models compared to Air RB vehicles. Again, the arcade spotting mechanic doesn’t exist so you must actually find targets visually, except for the Su-39.

No, one where performance earns you those ground attack weapons. If you want a plane, spawn the airframe, but get only guns. If you want the loaded attackers with the most effective ground attack payloads, it will require a better performance on your ground vehicles.

1 Like