Can we please move flankers to 13.0 in simulator?

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
1

Before I explain why Flankers should be 13.0, let me break down 13.0 teams for you when its 13.0 and below:
Team-A
-Three different F-14 Tomcats with ARH Fakour-90 and AIM-54C being top dog weapons.
-The F-16A/ADF with overperforming airframes.
-The F-15A with 4 IRCCM AIM-9M’s.
-Harriers with ARH AIM-120’s and IRCCM AIM-9M’s
-The JAS-39A Gripen that takes 6 IRCCM AIM-9M’s.
-The JA-37DI with ARH AIM-120’s and thankfully no AIM-9M’s.
-MiG-21 Bison with R-73’s and albeit the worse R-27’s if a British pilot is in your game.
-Tornados, but these are actually balanced.
-French Mirage 2k’s but thankfully they don’t have 6+ missiles like most of the aircraft here.
-France get a Belgian 13.0 F-16A with 6 AIM-9M’s in Sim. Let that sink in.

With that out of the way, let’s go over Team-B:
-MiG-29A that underperforms and has an incorrect missile kit that’s inadequate against the other team. Requires a lot more skill to beat an F-16 than an F-16 needs to beat you.
-MiG-29G that DOES have a good missile kit but generally same FP. Not enough German mains at that BR to make a difference.
-YaK-141 Its a MiG-29 but VTOL, carries 2 less missiles but can carry all R-27’s. A bit better than the MiG-29 at the same BR as it.
-F4F ICE. Theres nothing wrong with it. But still not enough of them to make a difference. Typically flown by good players though, gg.
-J8F. Has 2 PL12’s, but I never see this thing anywhere. Barely any Chinese sim players.

I know its pretty easy to say Skill Issue and not do anything but consider this: If one team’s airplanes are so easy that the other team needs to be filled with much better players in order to make the battle fair, there is very obviously unacceptable imbalance.
There are 3 solutions, but realistically can happen:

  1. Remove the R-27ER from the MiG29A, and replace the R-60’s with R-73’s and buff its flight performance.
  2. Move the SU-27/33 to 13.0 to counter the matches that often are 12 Team A players to 3-6 Team B players.
  3. Decompress BR’s and make 15.0, but this is the unlikely solution because if it was likely, it would have happened already.
    The EASIEST solution would be to switch the Flanker from 13.3 to 13.0 like it was in Realistic Battles. If it works in RB, why can’t it work in SB? But if that’s seriously too much, just fix the MiG-29’s weapons kit and flight performance, and make it comparable to the F-16A. The BEST solution is to do all three but obviously that wont happen.

Like I said, this is probably just going to come off as a skill issue rant and maybe it is but at least consider the points. I play both USA and USSR, and I win most times in my American jets, while I don’t win nearly as much in my Russian ones.

6 Likes
2

only normal solution - create 13.3 bracket.
none of which you listed would be normal, except of third

6 Likes
3

Well yeah, you could do that. But that wouldn’t fix 13.0, which I think happens twice in the Bracket rotations. a 12.3-13.0 and a 12.0-13.0. At least I think so.

4

13.0 is fine by itself.
Almist always there simillar planes options in both team - for example, AV-8B Radar(AV-8B+), F-15A(F-15J), F-16A/ADF(AJ, Belgian block 15). And sometimes just superior - for example F-4F ICE

5

13.0 is no where near fine. There is zero reason as to why the only aircraft that can beat NATO aircraft is other NATO aircraft. Eastern aircraft have zero capabilities that are dominant over western aircraft and that’s absolutely unacceptable. The fact that you need to use NATO jets to beat NATO jets is a perfect reason as to why there need to be buffs to eastern jets. On top of that, the primary players that play Team-B 13.0 are Russians and some Germans with occasionally france or Sweden depending on what team thing the match is based on.

2 Likes
6

Keep the r27er and give the mig29A r73.

7

The MiG-29A never had the ER/ET series, only the earlier R/T series. Later MiG-29 variants had access to the upgraded R-27. It would be cool to have more Fulcrum variants in the tree though. Like a Russian MiG-29G that does have the ER’S and ET’s.

8

I forgot to mention this ONE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT DETAIL. With the hornet’s sting update, we will have F/A-18A/C Early’s with the new AIM-7P that’s effectively an R-27ER with less G-load and no new Russian aircraft or changes to existing aircraft to counter them as they have: Better radars, EXTRMELY better maneuverability than anything else at 12.7-13.0, and now a much better AIM-7 and a LOT more of them. I think it carries 10-12 missiles in total if you take as many missiles as you can?

Put the flanker at 13.0 or give the MiG-29 the R-73’s and the maneuverability it’s supposed to when the update comes out.

9

Give me the same acceleration below 10km and i’d be willing to call it as ‘effectively an R-27ER’.

No other missile has that asset, and that raw performance is enough to win every encounter within that range. 7Ps will be a glorified, easier-to-handle 7Ms but that’s it, you’ll still be able to outroll it even on its best speeds due to its overload and AOA generation.

1 Like
10

It doesn’t get the same speed and maneuverability, yes. But the difference lies in the fact that the MiG-29 carries 2 R-27’s while the F/A-18’s can 3x or more missiles and completely blow it out of the water in a dogfight. Yeah, you can take a YaK-141, but that thing is a brick too, and you only get 2 more R-27’s than you had before. The only plane that has a chance is the 29G and really because it technically has the accurate MiG kit, just with ER/ET’s. That and Team-B NATO aircraft which has no reason to be the best way to defeat Team-A in at all.

11

Lost all creditability.

13

I highly support this change. It’s a disgrace that such an iconic plane doesn’t have its signature features. German MiG-29G should also lose the R-27ER and get western RWR.

I’m afraid not a lot of people will support it though. People just want to buff the MiG-29 in every way, because it’s muh favorite plane.

I think Russia players aren’t made fun of for this nearly enough, even though they are not that different from die-hard USA fans. They just suffer more from incorrectly modelled jets, which makes them think they have a moral high ground. Often they don’t even like Russian planes, they just oppose the hype for American planes. They don’t want to use the Russian doctrine, but just be better in general and BVR doctrine is arguably superior (irl, not in the game), hence the R-27ER “must stay”.

I think Su-27 should be moved to 13.0, if it loses R-27ER’s and F-15A, Gripen, Belgian F-16A etc. lose their AIM-9M’s and the flight models get sorted out.

Su-33 should stay at 13.3 with ER’s, because without them it’s just a worse Su-27 and it would be too strong for 13.0 with them. The planes that keep the R-27ER would have it buffed (MiG-29SMT, Su-27SM, Su-33), since it’s currently underperforming for balance reasons. A 13.3 bracket would be welcome too ofc.

Perhaps American flight models could be nerfed, if they are truly overperforming, to create a dynamic where Russia is better in WVR (mostly due to missile kit and HMD), while USA is better in BVR (also mostly due to missile kit and avionics). Maybe add the new AIM-7s with IOG + DL too, to make BVR cooler, but they aren’t really necessary.

However, I think American flight models are overperforming in the same way (almost) every flight model in the game is. Russian flight models just can’t be modelled correctly in the game right now, due to linear drag. They can only ever be massively underperforming at subsonic speeds or massively overperforming at supersonic speeds or a bit of both.

There should be absolutely zero medium range fox 3s flying at 13.0 or below, no matter how bad the platform is (AV-8, F-4F).

I don’t think AIM-54s are a problem, but Fakours are a different story, they are 13.3 material.

14

Different version of this same topic regurlarly pop up. And the problem is usually just one: read team suffers. And we perfectly know which planes are the problematic ones, but Gaijin doesnt seem interested in balancing the game. I personally wont play between 11.7 to 13.3 until things get better. I play to have fun, not to be target practice for people who fly stuff with much better armaments and radars, and if I join a lobby I want it at least somewhat balanced. Perfect balance doesnt exist, but now we’re so off the mark…