Buff jet aircraft brakes

It has been an entire YEAR since the last time someone made a post about the jet brakes, so far they’ve only increased the length of the airfields at higher tiers which doesn’t seem to have done much.

I’m a big fan of large planes and also ones that are stupidly obnoxious to land but i also like to fly planes in sim battles or just fly it in a realistic custom but with full real controls to practice a little, one plane that i like in sim is the Su-24 and my god the brakes are terrible, the other one i was testing was the Su-34 which is even worse due to the speed you need to have just to land as it tends to want to kiss the floor at any given moment when below 350km/h. This is even worse with the new bombers, the B-52 has an airbrake, large landing flaps and a GIGANTIC chute however the Tu-95 only gets landing flaps and the Tu-95 is so much harder to land with because the brakes are that underpowered. Sure they’re better brakes than some jets that i’ve landed with but even those jets take a while to slow down with the weak brakes.

I’m begging for all the high tier jets and other planes above rank 4 to get a brake buff, im only saying above rank 4 as if you’ve gotten there you should know how to land planes properly.

14 Likes

Do you have reverse properly pitch keybound? I do not use full/Sim controls, but I believe it is possible to control the prop pitch, IF they props are variable angle. If yes and yes, you can use them as reverse thrust, go full power, and that should stop you incredibly fast.

Alternatively, I have found in a test drive that fully turning off the engines helps with landing/slowing it down, especially in RB mode.

Even in RB I have not had issues stopping the Su-24. I turn on manual wing angle control, push them all the way forward as soon as I can get the gear down, and by that point you can set full flaps.

Also, you do have the airbrake on, yes? I honestly have not found the Su-24 hard to land. I was using it all this week in the Nuke Thunder event, yeah it’s a little heavy, but with wings full forward ASAP, full flaps, airbrake, I did not have an issue with it.

If you need help with the wing control keybinds, feel free to let me know. However, for the prop pitch stuff, I have no idea.

Actually, @Morvran might know 🙂 Do you know about manual propeller pitch control Sir?

image

Ah, yeah looks like the Tu-95M should have variable pitch props. If you can control those you should be able to get a massive amount of reverse thrust from them.

I really wish we could control the prop pitches in mouse+keyboard controls. Even a simple keybind to flip them fully forward or back would be awesome. IF we actually can do this currently, please let me know!

Its been a while and even then I just winged it @RunaDacino might have some advice regarding MEC

I think 100% is them fully angled and 0% is them flat. So I think 0% would produce the most drag

But I dont think reverse thrust is something modeled via MEC (could be wrong)

1 Like

DANGIT lol. Well, if our OP is using full controls already, even “feathering” them should remove a lot of thrust, I think. I noted a massive change in speed (better slowdown) when I turned the engines off, and they stopped spinning in RB test drive.

THOUGH, IF the engines stopped while the blades are in normal orientation, that might actually be better than “feathering” (IF the props are modeled to generate more drag in the normal position, with engines off.) Idk, depends on how they are actually modeled right now.

1 Like

aircraft Braking strength can be reported.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/U35UcsqA4P7d

you just need to find sources regarding landing distances

2 Likes

You can by the way.

You set-up MEC in full-real controls, then swap back to mouse aim.

The controls will “disappear” (become hidden) but still persist.

As for prop pitch -

the idea is that you are controlling your engine RPM, not your propeller blades directly.

To understand what is “coarse” vs “fine” pitch is to think of a screw.

A fine-pitch setting makes your propellers look like the threads on a fine-threaded screw:

image

And conversely, coarse looks like a coarse thread.

At 100% prop pitch, you set your propellers to maximize your RPM which leads to FINE propeller blade setting.

Learning this analogy is the only way I could comprehend why “fine” pitch increases drag.

Nota bene, you can’t perfectly maximize prop fineness with most aircraft because it is tied to your throttle position as well (constant speed). Only german style “variable pitch” aircraft can extract maximum potential.

This is why Bf 109s and Fw 190s will DIE if you mismanage prop pitch. There’s nothing preventing you from over-revving the engine while on a P-51 or spitfire the RPM governor makes the propellers turn more and more coarse as you pick up speed. Germans have implemented mechanical computers that govern pitch with the throttle position to avoid this, but make it possible to use manual overrides.

This is the basis of the infamous “german airbrake” (while on the defensive with a Bf 109, enter rolling scissors, cut throttle and set maximum propeller fineness then disable the automatic propeller pitch control. Suddenly you lose ALL your speed and force an overshoot.)

On topic of jet groundbrakes.

During the Nuclear thunder event I had zero issues with brakes on the F4E and Mig-23MLD and the Su-24.

What did I do?

  1. I flew full throttle towards the airfield at 100 meters
  2. I cut throttle just before crossing the treshold, deployed airbrakes
  3. I floated until the end of the runway and climbed to 300 meter altitude
  4. I turned HARD-left
  5. I maintained level flight (0m/s sink) parallel to the runway
  6. After aligning the end of the runway with my tailplane, I removed airbrakes, deployed flaps then proceeded to gently turn left
  7. Once aligned with the runway, I allowed myself to sink using flaps and airbrake to reduce my airspeed to 350 to 300 km/h IAS. My goal is to “land” in front of the runway.
  8. I pulled up hard after under 20 meters.
  9. I floated until touching down in the typical “touchdown zone” on modern runways

Key is to like touchdown at a speed where you literally cannot maintain level flight even at maximum safe AoA.

Key 2 is to NOT USE THRUST unless even at maximum AoA, you are losing altitude too fast. Thrust/throttle is to reduce your sink rate, not airspeed. If your airspeed gets too low and you risk stalling, pitch down.



(Unfortunately I dont have a screenshot with the SU-24 that gives a good perspective of how early I stop)

You can see with the F4E that I still have like a kilometer of runway to go.

1 Like

The su-34 and 24 get chutes no? Jsut deploy them under 300 kph.
The brakes on Russian planes are horrendous

In reality you shouldnt be able to over rev 109 and 190s engine as its Kommandogërat that takes care automatically of prop pitch and other engine settings like mixture,etc.

You can override it.

This is modelled in Il2:Great Battles as well. I dont have DCS so cannot comment.

In the actual 109 there’s a lever by your thumb on the throttle to control the prop pitch manually.

The intended usage of the override is to make taxiing easier (ergo: no changes in torque). However, pilots can choose to override it in flight as well.

The same prop pitch tricks are possible in Il2:Great Battles as in Warthunder as well (“German airbrake”, manually setting your prop pitch lower to reduce RPM to extend engine life in prolonged dogfights, manually setting prop pitch while running high power (MW50) to increase thrust under 200 km/h IAS. I dont recall the o’clock positions for these, only the prop pitch% so would need to check.)

Edit: DCS has it as well:

1 Like

I still find it extremely funny that functionally no aircraft in game has the brake power to do a basic run up. Even the recent B-52 overpowers it’s brakes at 75% ish thrust.

1 Like

In wt it’s more like the RPM lever instead of controlling pitch directly, so 100% would be max rpm and flat and vice versa.

The strange thing (or just bad?) with tu95 is that the best way could be turning off the engine and get rid of the jet part completely…

Wishing for a reverse pitch +1

75% power on all engines sounds like a high power run-up to me - I’ve not worked on military planes, but I’ve seen the effects of a DHC-8 jumping chocks and brakes with 100% power on just 1 engine - and then smack into a tow tug and a hangar!!

I cannot think of a circumstance where all the engines of a multi-engine plane would require high power ground runs all at the same time - but then I’ve only been a civilian aircraft mechanic on airliners for 51 years…

thats the problem, sometimes im coming in too fast and the brakes cant slow me down in time, other times i nearly crash because im coming in too slow to make sure the brakes can work in time

Personally when flying with props in sim i dont need to slow down exceedingly fast since the only other prop i have used was the Tu-2S, and most of the time i cant be bothered to fiddle around with multiple keybinds so i just shut my engines off when about to land and just coast in on my speed. But with the sheer size of the Tu-95 and the speed you need to deploy the flaps without them ripping (which is already hard to get to since it hardly loses speed and altitude) it makes me very hesitant to try and land. B-52 should be hella easy to take off and land but shares the same issue of keeping altitude and speed too well (big ass drogue chute goes crazy)

1 Like

you should wiggle your brakes/rudders, for example, this was me when i landed too fast. i just went sideways.

genshin impact decal warning if ur not into that

1 Like

i do try to wiggle but the su-34 is that fat it starts keeping its speed better than before somehow, and its gear isnt that strong so they tend to break off and ruin my quick respawn plan. if its back landing gear actually tilted to make it have more contact it would be easier to land, and another problem i found was at 450km/h which is a decent speed to land at the back wheel brakes decide to NOT apply any drag onto the ground because the front one somehow gains priority for braking power

2 Likes

damn, I’ve never had my gear break when turning in a flanker, IG su-34 is just that much fatter

it is exceptionally fat, other flankers can land easily at 350km/h right? the Su-34 falls out of the sky unless your nose is pitched up 30 degrees, and to explain more on the previous message, If you’re touching the ground with all the wheels at any speed over 300km/h the plane likes to tilt forward as you’d expect but this makes the contact between the back wheels and the ground exceptionally weak leading to only the front wheel brakes slowing you down. which makes no sense as visually the back wheels are STILL in contact with the floor but the braking power becomes non existent

1 Like

Pretty much all wheel brakes need to be buffed in WT. They are so weak compared to IRL, some planes literally can’t stop in time if you don’t approach near stall speeds in some scenarios

exactly, you’d expect brakes on the jets to be better than a shopping cart but at the moment they feel worse than that. i dont know why they nerfed the brakes that hard for jets though since if you flip them its mostly sideways or a buggy landing, obviously lower tier props are easier to flip but after a certain rank you should know how to land.