Note that this was a one and a half hour game with a premium account and a win. What is the multiplier for winning the game?
its sim if you want full rewards you must stay to the end and without premiumit would be like what -25%? ans in all game modes you must win to get better multiplier.
47%… note that since you are unable to achieve 100% rewards your win is also reduced, so you get about 88% for a win. 90% for a loss.
Yes I know that but don’t know what is the % of that multiplier for winning.
for air sim no
Not true… you can leave at any time.
I think he was referring to the fact that the longer the match lasts, the higher the percentage you get, like in Realistic. Though I don’t know if that’s a thing in Sim, which is also an idiotic measurement.
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Activity % is irrelevant…
1050 points per UA gets you max rewards which is 92% of what is on the stat card.
If you are on the winning team you get a 47% bonus to SL. 22% for ‘participating’.
I’m probably the best versed person on the subject: AMA or look at my spreadsheet about rewards : HeliBoys Sim EC Sheet - Google Sheets
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Yesterday I made 5 kills with an F-16. I died once. I was 5000SL negative.
5:1KD ratio is top 1% of all sim players.
STILL NEGATIVE SL
Absolutely ridiculous. If you don’t have premium plane + premium account, you literally need to play a couple of hours of another game mode to be able to play one hour of SIM. Especially at top tier, where the pace is much faster, you’ll probably die much sooner and it’s much harder to make the full 15 minutes, and there the spawn costs are the highest?!?
- At least make it so the first spawn doesn’t cost SL. It’s already **** to start the game bigtime in the negative.
- Get rid of the 15 minutes system or at least give it a constant slope so more score means more rewards (at the very minimum in SL, RP I don’t even care so much about). The 15 minute gives a huge incentive to just retreat to the airfield after getting 500 score. Taking more risk is no point and only detrimental, even if it helps the team/tickets etc. This destroys any fun if you actually want to play the game.
- We need maneuver kills and getting the kill for people J-ing out!!! If somebody stalls out, flies into a mountain, it’s my kill! It’s even a legitimate combat tactic. And the j-ing out is so incredibly toxic, there should be a system that detects it and after multiple times kicks the player from the lobby (like teamkills).
- Maybe with the new AA we can conclude the Zomber problem is much less present? So we can increase rewards for people actually playing the objectives a bit?
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How is this possible? Spawn costs for those are like 15kSL, 2 kills should give you max reward per flight + landings…SO about 30kSL negative + some change for ordnance. It doesn’t compute my good man.
It’s not the games fault you died. If you want total aggro, play RB.
Also a nice fix for issues in SB economy would be just to have no economy at all and an option for historic battles. You unlock planes in arcade or realistic. Problem solved.
Telling people to fly circles above their airfield after getting 2 kills does not improve sim health. It massively detracts from it. Makes it kind of hard to impossible to find others to fight if everyone just runs away, doesn’t it?
If anything, we want to encourage the opposite: Stay in the battle as long as you go ammunition and/or fuel and/or functional airframe and only RTB to rearm/repair/Refuel
And for F-16(I’m picking A)…
SL/minute: 1710 SL/min. In reality, that’s 0.92x1710 at 1050 score (or higher) or 1573.3 SL/min.
Spawn cost: 14,951 SL
Thus, first spawn best-case (you land) is 1710x0.92x15-14951=8647
If you don’t land (either becuase you died at 15.1 minutes, or because you loitered for 30 minutes and lost your first cycle reward - idk if it happens in jets, it happens in props quite frequently I find, especially with more BnZ heavy aircraft)… 1710x0.92x15x0.8-14951=3927.4.
You make a profit in either case, but it expects you to survive a full 15 minute cycle which discourages actual conflict and no amount of impact can offset it.
Not as bad as Rank IV/V tho at least.
Ho 229 -
1430 SL/min
17,369 SL to spawn.
Result:
1430x0.92x15-17369= 2365 SL if you LAND and get full reward.
1430x0.92x15x0.8-17369= -1581.8 IF you don’t land, YOU LOSE 1581.8 SL!
Do you seriously think this leads to healthy sim gameplay where people take risks to support teammates, stay in lobbies even if people on the enemy team are good enough to kill them?
Or does it contribute to the lovely case of “oh, I see person who can kill me. I J out and go to another lobby to farm newbies instead there.”
The best lobbies are those where the top 5 players on both teams have like 7 deaths and 12 kills on both sides. Meaning - both teams can kill the other team’s top 5 with a roughly fifty-fifty chance and both sides actually stay in the lobby to the bitter end (or until lobby gets too buggy).
You get that at props occasionally, since prop spawn cost is like 1/3 or 1/4 of max reward even without landing.
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Wonder how many people would keep playing Sim with the changes you just wrote, and how long it would take for it to completely die. The fix for Sim is the same as for any other mode: balance and a good mix of rewards and fun. This takes time and effort, and unless the Sim community can come together and push for changes, regardless of whether we agree on the exact changes, because change needs to happen, nothing will happen.
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That’s exactly what I said above. It actively hurts Sim mode and promotes bot-like behavior. There is no benefit to it other than Gaijin being able to just ditch the mode entirely.
If you think his comment is not valid in terms of ending with a net loss, look at my screenshot above. I made a loss in that game. Yes, it is a free-to-play account at the moment, and yes, it was a lost game, but even with all of that combined, I should have made a profit regardless. At the very least, the change they could make is to increase SL gain while keeping RP the same.
How is this possible? Spawn costs for those are like 15kSL, 2 kills should give you max reward per flight + landings…SO about 30kSL negative + some change for ordnance. It doesn’t compute my good man.
You assume I made these kills in 15 minutes…
No, I made them in about 4 minutes of time. At these BR’s, I can make about a kill per 2 minutes, consistently. Advantage, you blaze through the 40k points required for event tasks in less than an hour. Disadvantage, you also die every 5 minutes or so (still resulting in above 2:1 KD, mind you), resulting in a net loss of SL, because 5 minutes alive does not give enough SL to cover spawncosts (regardless of the actions you do).
That’s just the gameplay if you are highly aggressive at these BR’s on a full lobby. Faster gameplay with too small maps, highly deadly missiles…
But yeah, 5 kills in 4 minutes and then dying. 5:1 K/D, Loss of SL.
At below 12.3, the time one can stay alive is A LOT longer than at 13.0 and above, and all of this is much less of an issue. The economy just completely breaks at Fox-3 and IRCCM BR’s. That’s my whole point.
The alternatively is playing super defensive, returning to the airfield after your first kill, etc. Which is utterly not fun.
If (missiles_remaining>1): push_to_nearest_RWR_contact()); is the most fun.
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Stay in the battle until the objective (Air superiority, Ground Battle, Convoy (Ground/Ship), Bombers, Attackers, Bomb Target, Recon) is completed, then divert to another objective or RTB. If opposing team runs aways before you can engage them… you have completed your objective as a fighter and cleared the AO. But WT will not reward you for it, that’s the problematic part.
Because EC is not TDM (like RB is). The goal is to complete objectives as they bleed the tickets the fastest. There is two ways you can tell: 1.) Air to air kills don’t bleed much tickets and 2.) You get no rewards past 1050 score.
Prop or jet, you can get in a dogfight and kill 5 players in a minute for example. But in the case of a bomber, you can only bomb one base at a time, in props usually means forgoing at lest 2 UA cycles while only the middle one gets you points. So if anything, due to the fact that figters have the ability to deal such damage (on paper), they could have a decrease of rewards, so that you require to get 4 kills in 15 minutes to break even… that would solve your issue of overperforming.
Pure fighters hold no value on their own, not IRL, not in WT. They exist purely to remove fighters from the opposing force, otherwise they would get destroyed on land. Ideally, fighters don’t see any action and the air is clear for everyone else to do ground/naval based objectives. But in WT, that would mean that you don’t even get your spawn cost back by just escorting people around and keeping an eye on them. Not being there is the best way to avoid damage, but that goes against WT economy and general PvP game population. Must hold Shift+W and MB1, click heads, don’t worry about death, whoever clicked the most heads wins… It is a spanner in the wrench when survivability comes into play. Got forbid it was some on-life deal…
I play blue team, against an overwhelmingly amount of red players. I like to kill them, all of them, seriously. It’s what you get if those stupid SU30/33/F-2A’s camp the airfield. I will kill all of them, even if it’s 5V1. But then the 6th comes, I’m out of missiles and flares and he kills me, making this whole thing not economical. I’m still having fun.
You’re suggesting I become a stupid passive zomber instead of actually playing the game even if it’s against all odds. Okay man. I will just leave and play another BR where the pace is lower. Most people would leave if it’s one or 2 blue players against a lobby of 10 red players. I should not be f*ing punished for at least trying.
Because EC is not TDM (like RB is). The goal is to complete objectives as they bleed the tickets the fastest.
You have seriously never played SIM 13.0+ as blue team. Ohhh yeah, let me focus on AI bombers and convoys in a 2V10 lobby where all 10 of em have Fox-3’s and IRCCM and good radars and camping and bombing the airfield with Kh-38’s! lol
My whole point is this system of objectives in 15 minute useful actions breaks at 13.0 and above.
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With BVR, i totally agree with everything you said here. Hence the maps should be 512km at least, so there is at least some areas without radar coverage out of the box, fuel and pylon options come into effect, there is a need for electronic warfare options and so on and so on. Gamemode itself needs better mechanics, maps need to be bigger. UA is not an issue in itself.
Edit: Zomber means one way trips to enemy AF, not just everything that isnt sweaty pvp.
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Bombers: Always have something to do, guaranteed to get ~450-600 points even on a semi-dead server.
Fighter: You might spawn in, fly 30 minutes with nothing to do, land, go play something else. Waste your booster if you had any. Only time you can actually get to do something is a properly busy lobby like a 8vs8 or a 10vs10 on a 64x64 map (WW2 props).
The economic system you defend, and later propose, excarbarate that issue for fighters even more so. After someone gets 450 score (75% reward) or 600 score (86% reward), then they have no reason to take risks and can just afk above their runway.
People need to be encouraged to take risks.
Current system encourages dead lobbies.
I go to A point. I dive down on a random fighter. 450 points got.
Logical action: Ditch my ally spamming “Cover me!” as it’s not worth it, let them die, go back to my airfield and circle for 15 minutes, land, repeat.
Fun for the whole family.
Whenever I try to play for progression in my premium planes, I end up not playing for a few weeks after because it’s dead boring.
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Whoever agrees with the overall issue this thread is highlighting, please like the initial post so it can get more exposure.
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