Broken system in air sim

Game Discussion Simulator Battle
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32

The difference is that if I die to an enemy, I get a higher percentage of useful actions than if I die to suicide.

“How can the game even tell the difference?” You really think the game can’t tell player kills apart from suicides or dying to bots? Brother, please…

It’s actually very easy to prevent abuse. Just create a system that automatically flags accounts with excessive suicide deaths or deaths to bots, and then decide what to do with them.

First offense: reduce overall rewards and give a warning that clearly explains what they did wrong.

Multiple offenses: crew lock them for a day, a week, or a month. Let’s see how they keep exploiting after that.

People act like farmers are some massive unsolvable problem, when in reality it’s incredibly simple to counter. Simply state that any kind of economy exploitation is against the Terms of Service, including things like suicide bomb runs. Continuous abuse should result in escalating punishments, up to and including account termination. Voilà, problem solved.

Anyone who thinks the current system is fine either doesn’t play the mode, doesn’t play the game at all, or is a Gaijin bot. I honestly don’t see any other explanation.

33

Yes, it is. But how do you expect a problem to get fixed when you have people like this, who argue over every little thing and make it seem like it’s the player’s fault instead of a flaw in the game mechanics?

34

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/BCFdF5ngLqtR

It was reported.

The bug report manager has no idea how sims works nor actually read the report.

2 Likes
35

This only highlights the fact that you can’t actually get 100% of the reward, but the bigger issue is that the whole system doesn’t really work. Or rather, it works in a way that punishes players rather than rewards them. It needs to be reworked.

36

No, how can the game tell the difference between someone ripping their wings trying to defend against a missile without CMs and deliberately overspeeding to skip an RTB. Which is what your original post reads like.

Or maybe someone who doesnt want to see the gamemode abused the rewards nerfed even further. The only reason we have low rewards is because of people exploiting the gamemode.

37

You could make it so that on suicide, the game checks proximity to enemy missiles or enemy planes. I literally thought of the message above while typing, maybe the idea isn’t perfect, but they could definitely come up with a good system if they tried.

People are always going to try to exploit things. Why do you think there are cheaters in every game? Do you really think that with the amount of time and money it takes to grind a specific tree, people would continue exploiting in Sim if Gaijin actually started banning those accounts? Of course they wouldn’t.

I’ve got almost 3,000 hours in the game, around 2,500 to 2,700 hours played, and I’ve researched maybe 30 to 40 percent of the vehicles. I’ve been playing for about 4 to 5 years. Yet so many of you talk as if someone exploiting and getting 200 to 500k SL in a single game, or 100k RP, is going to bankrupt Gaijin. Be realistic, please.

The reason this became such an issue isn’t the farming itself. It’s that Gaijin never actually punished the behavior. Instead, they tried “damage control,” nerfing everything over and over until now Sim has become nearly unplayable unless you’re okay with killing your time and your SL in the process.

1 Like
38

And the proximity system should have already been in the game if the community actually pushed for things that we need, as a way of rewarding maneuver kills and to counter salty kids that hit the ground before the missile hits them.

39

I forgot to mention that majority of time this was with a premium account and vehicles.

40

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look at this game my firstgame with the mig25 and and i died 8 times from over speed but still i got good rewards, the think that need to change is the reward system that when you are not moving for 4-5 min you stop getting time for usefull actions i have lost so many games because evrytime a teammate gets 700 points get to the airfield and stays there for 15min and sametimes costing the game, it should just get your score in the end of the game multiply it with the active time and then chop a little for how many times you have died

41

Note that this was a one and a half hour game with a premium account and a win. What is the multiplier for winning the game?

42

its sim if you want full rewards you must stay to the end and without premiumit would be like what -25%? ans in all game modes you must win to get better multiplier.

43

47%… note that since you are unable to achieve 100% rewards your win is also reduced, so you get about 88% for a win. 90% for a loss.

44

Yes I know that but don’t know what is the % of that multiplier for winning.

45

for air sim no

46

Not true… you can leave at any time.

47

I think he was referring to the fact that the longer the match lasts, the higher the percentage you get, like in Realistic. Though I don’t know if that’s a thing in Sim, which is also an idiotic measurement.

48

Activity % is irrelevant…

1050 points per UA gets you max rewards which is 92% of what is on the stat card.

If you are on the winning team you get a 47% bonus to SL. 22% for ‘participating’.

I’m probably the best versed person on the subject: AMA or look at my spreadsheet about rewards : HeliBoys Sim EC Sheet - Google Sheets

49

Yesterday I made 5 kills with an F-16. I died once. I was 5000SL negative.
5:1KD ratio is top 1% of all sim players.
STILL NEGATIVE SL
Absolutely ridiculous. If you don’t have premium plane + premium account, you literally need to play a couple of hours of another game mode to be able to play one hour of SIM. Especially at top tier, where the pace is much faster, you’ll probably die much sooner and it’s much harder to make the full 15 minutes, and there the spawn costs are the highest?!?

  • At least make it so the first spawn doesn’t cost SL. It’s already **** to start the game bigtime in the negative.
  • Get rid of the 15 minutes system or at least give it a constant slope so more score means more rewards (at the very minimum in SL, RP I don’t even care so much about). The 15 minute gives a huge incentive to just retreat to the airfield after getting 500 score. Taking more risk is no point and only detrimental, even if it helps the team/tickets etc. This destroys any fun if you actually want to play the game.
  • We need maneuver kills and getting the kill for people J-ing out!!! If somebody stalls out, flies into a mountain, it’s my kill! It’s even a legitimate combat tactic. And the j-ing out is so incredibly toxic, there should be a system that detects it and after multiple times kicks the player from the lobby (like teamkills).
  • Maybe with the new AA we can conclude the Zomber problem is much less present? So we can increase rewards for people actually playing the objectives a bit?
2 Likes
50

How is this possible? Spawn costs for those are like 15kSL, 2 kills should give you max reward per flight + landings…SO about 30kSL negative + some change for ordnance. It doesn’t compute my good man.

It’s not the games fault you died. If you want total aggro, play RB.

Also a nice fix for issues in SB economy would be just to have no economy at all and an option for historic battles. You unlock planes in arcade or realistic. Problem solved.

51

Telling people to fly circles above their airfield after getting 2 kills does not improve sim health. It massively detracts from it. Makes it kind of hard to impossible to find others to fight if everyone just runs away, doesn’t it?

If anything, we want to encourage the opposite: Stay in the battle as long as you go ammunition and/or fuel and/or functional airframe and only RTB to rearm/repair/Refuel

And for F-16(I’m picking A)…

SL/minute: 1710 SL/min. In reality, that’s 0.92x1710 at 1050 score (or higher) or 1573.3 SL/min.

Spawn cost: 14,951 SL

Thus, first spawn best-case (you land) is 1710x0.92x15-14951=8647
If you don’t land (either becuase you died at 15.1 minutes, or because you loitered for 30 minutes and lost your first cycle reward - idk if it happens in jets, it happens in props quite frequently I find, especially with more BnZ heavy aircraft)… 1710x0.92x15x0.8-14951=3927.4.

You make a profit in either case, but it expects you to survive a full 15 minute cycle which discourages actual conflict and no amount of impact can offset it.

Not as bad as Rank IV/V tho at least.

Ho 229 -

1430 SL/min
17,369 SL to spawn.

Result:
1430x0.92x15-17369= 2365 SL if you LAND and get full reward.
1430x0.92x15x0.8-17369= -1581.8 IF you don’t land, YOU LOSE 1581.8 SL!

Do you seriously think this leads to healthy sim gameplay where people take risks to support teammates, stay in lobbies even if people on the enemy team are good enough to kill them?

Or does it contribute to the lovely case of “oh, I see person who can kill me. I J out and go to another lobby to farm newbies instead there.”

The best lobbies are those where the top 5 players on both teams have like 7 deaths and 12 kills on both sides. Meaning - both teams can kill the other team’s top 5 with a roughly fifty-fifty chance and both sides actually stay in the lobby to the bitter end (or until lobby gets too buggy).

You get that at props occasionally, since prop spawn cost is like 1/3 or 1/4 of max reward even without landing.

2 Likes