I decided to check some more
While rapier does slightly more/the same amount to surrounding parts by the means of shrapnell, it can be seen that the hull is not broken after Rapier impact (orange outline).
and for further context
150% the trigger radius, and around 1/3rd the HE filler, but more damage
and the Rapier has a longer delay… allowing it to get closer before detonating for both headon and rear aspect shots before detonation…
come one gaijin…
It probably wouldnt even be that bad if we had far more realistic damage models where a minor hit could still be enough to cripple the aircraft and force an RTB. But at the moment, its alive or dead and not really much inbetween
Avionic blocks for Fixed-wing aviation when?
As long as it’s implemented properly it would be “great” (like they did for the AH-64s, Ka-50/52)
it’d help the issue a bit, but only if gaijin don’t get carried away with neutering aircraft because a single 7mm hit an empty part of the fuselage, like they did with things like the AH-1G and Alouette pasting that awful % damage to % change of system being knocked out ratio on BS
“Combat Inoperable” would actually be a usable phrase
Although something like that would get heavy flak from the community, and personally i think it’d generally hurt the “Fun” of the game
What do you mean I cant be in a flatspin with no wings, tail, all my fuel tanks on fire with a dual engine fire and slam off up to 6 missiles at an enemy? while falling from orbit?
Im not so ure about this. If they add that then most of the planes in game will have the model most heli have now where damage effects systems randomly. A great example would be the ea vixen where if the elevator is hit, even yellow, it limits your maximum g pull to 4-5g. This isnt even an exageration a at orange you can no longer see 3gs and it becomes imposible to even fly back to the airfield as your turn time becomes minutes rather than second.
The tornado i the same with even a single elevator (dont know the specific name for what the tornado has, all flying tail?) will cause the same and make it impossible to fly. Last thing i want is for jets to suddenly become wet tissue to 7.7s let alone small missiles. Learning of the history of the r60 makes you realise jets are alot sturdier than we give them credit and the r60 isnt as good as i thought lol.
:)
yeah that annoys me greatly, but it only affect it in mouse aim mode, when this happens to me i switch to mouse joystick to at least be able to land it in RB (it you can fly it right, it probably still ends up playing like pre-buff tornado anyway with enough skill)
I’m not aware with the Sea vixen, but with other planes that i’ve flown like this the issue is only present at nearer their top speed, but yeah, its definitely annoying that you suddenly turn into a subsonic F-104 at times with similar aircraft
So lads, now we can have multi vehicle controlling SAM systems, I think its time we push for the next best thing since the Fox addition.
The dismountable swingfire operator. Yes? Video timestamped for active “viewing” of the concept.
Maybe when we get infantry.
But this isnt really “infantry” though, this is a member of the crew dismounting with the optical and control system in hand and firing remotely. It is more akin to a mix of using a drone to spot and the new SAM multi-vehicle feature to fire then it is to dismounts with their own weapons.
Doesnt it also have a telescopic sight?
As far as I’m aware it lacks a telecopic sight (as seen on the Swingfire) because it has the remote firing feature, therefore a telescopic sight is kind of pointless in real life.
You’d just park the vehicle behind cover and then guide it remotely from a position with line of sight.
Ah. Swingfire is the one Im thinking of.
Defo needs to be modeled
It really should be, but I imagine gaijin are too lazy.
In the meantime the Swingfire version of the Ferret (Fox) would be cool
Yeah, that would be a lot of fun. But would need the ammo crate mechanic I think
It would get it ingame, a total of 8 missiles then would be useable
Yeah, that would just about be managable.
The Badger looks quite fun so far.
Overall seems like a reasonably good IFV
Here’s my explanation of why the BOL nerf is wrong (please vote) along with a backup copy for when the dev server forum section gets closed.
With the Leviathans Update introducing Imaging Infrared (IIR) anti-aircraft missiles in the form of IRIS-T and AIM-9X it is time for the Gaijin to revert the ahistorical nerfs that they made to BOL countermeasures and restore their effectiveness to at least pre-nerf levels.
[Poll]
BOL is a type of countermeasures (chaff / flare) dispenser which fits into the rear of a missile launch rail, allowing a large number of countermeasures to be carried in space that would otherwise go unused. The countermeasures are stored as flat packets on a belt inside the launcher, allowing 160 countermeasures to be carried per launcher. Imagine a loaf of sliced bread on a conveyor belt and each time the belt moves one slice falls off the end, that’s basically how BOL works, only with chaff / IR decoys instead of slices of bread.
BOL countermeasures are used on many aircraft in game, including the Harrier, Tornado, Gripen, Eurofighter, and some versions of the F-18.
BOL was originally introduced with the same performance as normal countermeasures but in update 25.01.2024 Gaijin massively reduced the effectiveness of BOL countermeasures (seemingly prompted by how well the Gripen was performing at the time). This graph shows the effectiveness and duration of the different types of flares in game. It can be seen that the luminosity (how attractive the countermeasure is to missiles) of the BOL countermeasures was reduced by ~40% compared to standard countermeasures and the time they remain effective for after being fired was reduced by ~60%. BOL chaff was hit even worse, with it’s RCS reduced by a whopping 75% compared to normal chaff.
This double whammy of nerfs has massively reduced the effectiveness of BOL countermeasures, and made aircraft which rely on them for the bulk of their countermeasures (for example the Tornado F.3) increasingly hard to play as newer and newer missiles have been added over the last year.
Gaijin’s stated reason for making this change is that BOL countermeasures are physically lighter than most other countermeasures, so should be less effective. While it is true that BOL countermeasures are lighter than traditional countermeasures it is not at all correct to conclude that this makes them less effective. Let’s look at this in more detail.
BOL chaff consists of a lightweight plastic frame with packets of chaff within it, the frame is ejected from the BOL launcher, and the airflow then breaks the packets open dispersing the chaff.
In game standard chaff is based on the Russian 26 mm chaff cartridge, which has a mass of 55 g, meanwhile the BOL packet has a total mass of 45 g.
Chemring BOL Datasheet:
Chemring 26 mm Chaff datasheet (Fit-Form-Function replacement for out of production PPR-26 chaff cartridges)
So it is true that a BOL chaff packet is lighter than a normal chaff cartridge, however the difference in mass is only 18%, which clearly does not justify a 75% decrease in RCS. However this is simply comparing the total mass of the BOL packet and the chaff cartridge, lets see what happens if we compare the actual volume of chaff within each.
A BOL chaff packet is 71.8 mm x 85.5 mm x 11.3 mm, pixel measuring that gives us a block of chaff that is roughly 60.0 x 68.2 x 10.0 mm or 40,920 mm3. By comparison a 26 mm chaff cartridge is 26 mm in diameter and 86 mm long. If we are very generous and assume that 10 mm of that total length is lost to the base plate, the end cap (that stops chaff falling out), and other stuff like the plunger that forces the chaff out then we get a maximum possible chaff cylinder of 26 mm x 76 mm, which equates to 40,350 mm3 of chaff (and that is a generous estimate).
So we can see that a BOL chaff packet likely contains no less chaff than a typical chaff cartridge.
That’s not all though. Due to it’s placement inside a missile launch rail BOL chaff is typically carried in the wing (where traditional chaff is carried in fuselage dispensers on most aircraft). In their brochure SAAB explicitly note that being mounted on the wing, significantly increases BOL’s RCS compared to traditional chaff, due to the vortices near the wing tip helping the chaff rapidly bloom. In addition air scoops on the back of the the launcher further increase this effect. So not only is BOL chaff no smaller than conventional chaff it is more effective too!
BOL IR is a tad more complicated than the chaff. BOL IR is not actually a flare in the traditional sense it is a pyrophoric spatial IR decoy. A pyrophoric material is sealed within a plastic packet, when the packet is ejected it breaks apart and the material is released into a cloud, much like chaff. The material then reacts with the air, rapidly oxidising and producing an intense cloud of infrared radiation. It should be noted that BOL IR is near invisible to the naked eye as nearly all of its energy is concentrated in the IR spectrum (unlike conventional flares which waste some energy producing visible light).
This mechanism actually makes BOL IR more effective than conventional flares against IIR missiles. The Spatial nature of the decoy makes it appear as a similar in size to the aircraft, rather than as a single hot point that the seeker can easily identify and ignore. Here is an example of BOL IR viewed through a thermal camera:
In addition spatial decoys like BOL IR can entirely block an IIR missile’s view of a target in the rear aspect, allowing the target to escape while the missile is blinded. This effect can be seen in these images:
Gaijin’s nerf to BOL countermeasures is not historically accurate and for over a year this change has had a major detrimental impact on a wide range of aircraft which rely primarily on BOL for self-defence. With the arrival of missiles featuring IIR seekers, which BOL IR was specifically designed to defeat, it is time for Gaijin to reverse the nerf they made to BOL. In real life BOL countermeasures are just as effective, if not more so, than traditional countermeasures, so should be returned to being at least as good as normal countermeasures in game.
Looks like the Tornado ADVs got nerfed by no insignificant margin
