Or equal to current F5s for more fun and F5s should fly like current Harrier FM and Skyhawk
Ideal, but Ideal.
Which will not come to us forever. :/
And F-4K/M will be forever worse than F-4J/S in same BR, being ashamed by F/A-18A in 12.3BR
1- Buff them down to 11.7 because they have a worse SARH missile than F-4J/S (no chance)
2- Give historical AIM-9L to make them sidegrade of F-4J/S with better IR but worse SARH (low chance)
3- Give Skyflash SuperTEMP (AIM-7F to F-4JUK) to make them similar by similar SARH missiles (low chance)
4- Keep the current shitehole and being inferior, because British have no right to have a good domestic jet, and it is against ToS
:/
In air RB, FGR2 is better than F4J because of the engines.
AIM-7F’s longer range is useful in some circumstances, but not for the most common play styles.
While AIM-7F was the biggest power creep back in the day, player knowledge made that power creep less and less.
I support SuperTEMPs, but they aren’t the upgrade you think they are.
The FGR.2 wasn’t an improvement of the FG.1, both were developed for different branches of the BAF (British Armed Forces), whatever the FGR.2 operated in service so was the FG.1 capable of doing so.
The FG.1 we’ve got in-game is retrofitted with a gun pod only saw in RAF service iirc
I’d personally prefer if both were to receive the Skyflash SuperTEMP, with the F-4J (UK) moving down to 11.7.
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I don’t think so, and personally think
F-4J/S is better than F-4K/M because of AIM-7F
Not only longer range, but also faster acceleration in long range. Maybe after 8~10km-ish?
F-4J/S can fire their missile first, and can force F-4K/M move to defend first.
Also, F-4J/S can use 0/6 loadout while F-4K/M are forced to use 4/4
It doesn’t change the fact that AIM-7F is generally better missile than [AIM-7E-2 with better proxy fuse].
And, DON’T FORGET THAT F-4J CAN ALSO USE AIM-7E-2 IF THEY REALLY WANT TO
HOW???
Longer Range because of sustainer from the motor change.
They ARE the upgrade I think they are.
But I get what you meant, and I think we are not going to make an agreement at this rate.
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I absolutely agree. The F-4J/S has a far superior SARH missile, that being the AIM-7F, and HMS support for its radar and IR missiles making engagement time much quicker - people tend to overlook this major advantage.
Okay, here’s a question… in-line with better missiles worse platform.
Is the Mig-29 better than the F-16AJ?
Is the Mig-21 Bison better than the Mirage 2000?
Is the Yak-141 better than the French F-16A?
It begs the question if an improvement in missile [not as much of an improvement as say 9M vs 9L] counters the inferior flight performance of the platform to the extent of warranting a higher BR.
Should Mig-21Bison be the same or higher BR than Mirage 2000 CS5?
Should Mig-29 be a higher BR than F-16AJ?
Should the Yak-141 be the same or higher BR than F-16A FRA?
There are likely other examples that I can’t think of at this time.
This is not a dismissal of your post; it is instead an argument I have with myself constantly over such situations, and one you might want to employ for your own purposes.
I’d love to see you come up with a strong argument, doesn’t matter what the position is.
F-4J forcing the FGR2 to do S maneuvers toward the F-4J isn’t the argument to make.
I’m already doing S maneuvers toward the enemy out of practice, and it doesn’t impact positioning.
Feels a bit fishy and feels like a moving goalpost attempt, but okay.
(No offence. rly)
As long as Mirage 2000CS-5 has a lot more CM than MiG-21bison, nah.
If MiG-29 had a ‘non-IRCCM version of R-73’, and(or) a bit of decompression was held.
Compared to AIM-9L, R-60M is not good enough to send them to 13.0
2x IR(IRCCM) + 2x [IR/SARH] =/= 6x IR(IRCCM)
Okay
I don’t think so.
2 Likes
SuperTEMPS would be nice but the radar is too poor to utilise them effectively
The F4J UK compared to the best phantom at its br, the F4S
It is just worse in every way but gun and radar and engines for ARB
FGR2 has decent engines but the stock grind is abysmal with 2 9Ds and thats all
the engines alone do not warrant having no leading edge slats, lack of sustainer sparrow and a worse IR missile being on the F4S at the same BR
Playing the F4J UK today i got 2-4 kills on average not because of supreme british might but because they flew at me and i fired a skyflash, which they promptly did not avoid bc theyre flying near straight at 500m through the battlefield
Very simply on paper the Brs are a total sham but effectiveness of any upgrade to the british phantoms just arent going to do much besides maybe 9L but thats a different case of affairs (I have had i think 0 opportunities to use 9L specifically over 9G whilst playing it recently, most id get out of them is the G pull and not the all aspect)
Ah well that just makes my post more true about the terrible position the UK phantoms are in. 0.3 BR below a great Gen 4 that is super strong (F-5 on super steroids is definitely able to handle 12.7+) and the same BR as a USN phantom that is just better in every single way.
Something I must talk about is how the F4 JnUK is at the same BR as the other Phantoms while being worse that the F4C and F4F [e].
What should the F4J(UK) get? (Multiple choice for all new together)
- AIM 7F
- AIM 9L
- VTAS (I know only the US used it and didn’t sell it)
- A lower BR
- A higher BR but with +2.0 BRs for top tier (no brainer but pretend this is not a standard option)
0
voters
Just give them all (FG1 FGR2 and F4J(UK)) Skyflash SuperTEMP
Would SF ST even be enough though?
Yeah it is an AIM-7M equivalent
But with lower range? or has it been changed? I haven’t checked in 2 years so please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the 7M better with range and agility and SuperTEMP is good with seeker and reliability?
It is about the same
They are slightly worse at short ranges but slightly better at longer ranges.
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I’ve had a horrible experience playing this jet, and quite honestly dont see how it in any world is worth its salt at 12.0.
The higher speed is negligible, and acceleration isn’t much better than the F4J/S. Lacking wing slats kills its maneuveribility , and something i don’t see many people mention; the higher speeds are also compression speeds on deck, so multipathing becomes a huge challenge. The SF DF rarely hit beyond about 10km, and have a guidance/pull delay of about 1.2 seconds or so, headon launches bellow 2km are not possible as opposed to the 7Fs that can, and have longer range than the SF DF(coupled with HMD) The F4J/S are way better than the FGR2, and have way more advantages.
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