British guns - they suck

Just had the perfect “case-in-point” moment

I know the angle was kinda extreme. but this is a Challenger with APFSDS shells that should have no issues penning the armor of what looks like a Puma, so probably not a lot of armor. I barely get a “hit” from it. Seriously come on.

Replicating the shot as best I can in protection analysis, the round should have past clean through the puma, unless it ricochet, but it clearly didnt ricochet, and even then, by all accounts it should still have done damage to other parts of the tank

The imbalance between solid shot and APHE is one of the most broken aspects of the game. APHE is massively over performing and solid shot seriously under performs.


I agree, I’m not sure if this has happened just recently or what, but my 17 pounder solid shot (not APDS) has been struggling to pen things, for example, I tried to take out an ISU-122 from the side, where it has 75mm of armour, from around 100 meters my 17 pounder Shot Mk VIII (187mm penetration) failed to pen.

My Avenger, with Shot Mk IV (171mm penetration at close range) couldn’t pen the front of a Tiger, not the side of a Panther’s turret.

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It hit the engine but it should have still sent shrapnel over it going back into the tank

Yeah, in the protection analysis, a hit at that angle, almost always went straight through the engine and out the back of the tank

for some reason engine blocks just vacuum in rounds

@AlvisWisla Probably better to continue in this thread

There’s another good case for, “how the bloody hell did that not give a kill”

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Oh right, cause 2 crew on top, 1 in hull, so 3 left over.

How many crew has that thing got!

It’d be neat if IFVs without the combat missile loads would gain 4 crew members each as well.

Yeah. Loose 1 crew in the chally and you feel the impact for the entire game. 2 dead and its basically GG unless you can get to a cap point. you’d think that 3 dead would be enough to take out a IFV and how that fourth guy on the left took no damage is confusing to me. yellow/red, okay fine. but nothing?

British tank guns are basically fat slug shooters, nothing but a big fat slug going through armor assuming it goes through at all.

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So a massive increase to the shatter rate against angled armour from around 20% to over 80% against anything anove 45° is not a nerf?
The fact that APDS now performs worse than a year ago is proof alone. A Comets APDS can not ufp a Panther, the thing it was designed to do and did very successfully in reality.
APDS got more pen on paper but lost a lot on reality. You can have 800mm of pen on paper. If it fails to penetrate 20mm of armour because the armour is angled at 45° then that is reality

Above its ricochet angle.*
46 degrees is not its ricochet angle.
SV Mk1 APDS lolpens Panther UFP.
It was doing it just 2 days ago.

German starting at 5.0 (mediums) lol pen everything. And they do post pen damage, and many share the same reload as AP throwers. Then better scopes, accuracy, and gun stability.

Only saving grace was Comet back to 5.3 but now there is no 5.7 at all. Couple that with no real 6.7 too. If this were Germany (ground) the forums would be exploding!

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The Comet’s cannon fires rounds at a significantly lower velocity than the 17 pounder (APDS at roughly 200 m/s less muzzle velocity). It cannot penetrate the Panther’s UFP at all. It actually was by far the most nerfed APDS round since not only did it lose some flat penetration (went from 220 to 216 mm at point blank) but it also received the significantly worse slope modifiers that early APDS rounds get.

And even the 17 pounder, I’ve checked the math and previously it would be able to penetrate with an >50% chance up to about 1300 meters. Now it does the same up to 800-900 meters. So against the Panther UFP it indeed has been undeniably nerfed.

And all of that is without the Panther even just slightly angling the armor. Early APDS performs exponentially worse against angled armor than later APDS designs, and if I’m not mistaken at just 57º the Panther UFP becomes a very unreliable pen for the current 17 pounder APDS even at point blank.

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Could you provide a source for that?

Germans don’t get good gun stability until Tiger 2.
Where T26E5 cannot be easily penned by Tiger 2.
5.0 Germany is glass cannons.
5.3 is slow turret traverse.
5.7 is okay gun handling but Tiger 1 has the best, and isn’t the most well armored.
The only tanks that allegedly suffer at 5.7 are the 5.7 Sherman, and T-34-85, which would be fixed with corrected APCBC penetration.

Compared to the 17pdrs/77mm they are though.

I’d say the Comet and Challenger are, well, glass (in comparison). The Challenger definitely wins against pretty much anyone on traverse of turret. The AC IV lacks the APDS (which saves you from trying to use it if it happens to be during a questionable time for some AP). All three are not able to handle shots quite like the D to G. Across them all there are of course various tradeoffs (speed, depression, shape of vehicle), but I feel the recent return of the Comet to 5.3 helps show it was not quite as powerful as some believed. I do/have liked this range but a lot comes down to the current iteration of AP (and the bug bear of having a fair amount of researchable shells that are pointless, during spading only of course).

The point being the higher penetration values will never make up for almost as high pen with filler, especially since early APDS now performs less effectively than other times.

What ?