A good pilot can do a lot of things close to a miracle even in inferior hardware, but the overall competitiveness is depending on the the performance of the hardware he is facing, the quality of the involved pilots and the composition of both teams.
Your mentioned aircraft are not bad - but if you face a similar skilled enemy flying anything at the same BR your chances to win a fight / 1 vs 1 are basically gone (except with a massive energy surplus) - that’s why nobody is scared of facing German props at 3.3-5.7 in Air RB.
Therefore i am glad to see that you still feel confident enough to use them in Air RB. But to be fair: This thread exists mainly as there is a large number of experienced players thinks otherwise.
Based on my experiences based fighting together with German teams dominated by 109s and 190s is exactly the opposite. Yes, a large part is a result of the overall skill deterioration of players in Air RB, but when flying the 3.3 Rank III Me 410 A-1 or the C-3604 i am usually the last man standing.
And fighting German dominated teams in the 3.3 Hellcat (US Rank II, UK Rank III) or the French MB 157 (III, BR 3.3) is basically a walk in the park as all you have to do is to kill the few very good pilots in the 109 E-4 (not F-4) - all others share a similar fate like Noah & Co facing Larry.
In case you miss the context - a short reminder how Larry deals with things:
Bruh, you diss the k-4 but then support your claim by stating that wildcat slaps 3.3? Maybe I missed something
Thing is, I agree about the hellcats, as well as xp-50s, yaks, early p38s, mosquitos, etc. That’s exactly why I don’t consider f-4 to be a great pick currently.
At 3km to 6km K-4 outclimbs and outperforms vertically almost all its competitors up to 5.7 BR, and a good chunk of planes at 6.0. Below 3km it depends on energy advantage but it’s very good at getting it, and then maintaining it as well.
merge (equilize energy states first if needed), upward spiral, they either stall out and die or disengage at the cost of altitude, while you keep initiative. With how poor the average skill level is in air rb right now, it’s very easy to abuse.
Beating some clueless dude in a stock k-4 trying to turn fight you isn’t indicative of its weakness
yes! you missed his correction to hellcats, which is very good at that br. But he actually is leaving out the most glaring issues, the f4u4b at 4.3 lmao, literally better performance than the k4 (same as f4u4b) but over a full br lower because it gets 6 12.7s… oh and let’s not forget about the f8f-1 at 4.7, good luck doing ANYTHING against that in a fw190a lol (it has insane low speed performance and overall climb rate. And I’m leaving out the most disgusting op place that curb stomps the k4 and that whole br bracket, the yak3u is faster than a p51h5 at low altitude and will out climb the k4 easily while out turning a re2005. the ONLY thing balancing the plane is the relatively low ammo count but it’s easier enough for 3 or 4 kills if you don’t spray. The k4 has great energy retention and I enjoy it, but it’s got 2 good turns before it is a brick and will lose a sustained dogfight to most if not all fighters around its br.
Sorry to come off as a smart ass but that’s not how a k-4 is supposed to work.
Yak3u performs better than a k-4 up to 3km only. But unlike k-4 it overheats a lot. It can set prop pitch to 90 but then it loses climb advantage vs k-4 even at low alt. 3km to 6km it doesn’t hold a candle to K-4. Yak also rips at 660kph, on top of compessing hard even before that. So its potential energy has lower ceiling (k-4 trades altitude into speed and back better, even at low alt, although i wouldn’t wanna push my luck at sea level unless i absolutely have to)
All you need to do in a k-4 is equalize energy (in a dive by split s’ing until they compress, ,then going hard vertical) or merge and go into upward spiral until they stall out. That’s it
I flew for testing purposes the P-51 D-30 - an allegedly bad aircraft. My report - and a small quote out of it:
As i saw multiple times German aircraft mentioned - the overwhelming majority of my kills (and unwanted assissts) were 109 K-4s/G-14s and 190 D-12/13s. From my pov they have zero chance in a 1 vs 1 on equal energy states. All you have to do is to merge at very high speed.
In addition to that they are my preferred victims when flying the US-P47 D-28 or the Chinese F-47 & D-30 in full or partial uptiers and like the Yak-3/9 variants at 5.7 easy to fight in a plain A7M2 - and free kills like in my P-59.
The P-47s turn way better than the K-4 (i use a Hotas) at any speed ranges and for guys trying to setup energy traps - 3.400/4.000 little API-T friends are happy to make friends with K-4s.
That’s why i mentioned upfront:
So arguing that you can stall out rookies is exactly what you state here:
Next:
Thx - too many cats…👍
I found a decent player who could support my claim that Hellcats are Yak-3 killers - in case you use a Hotas like me. His post might be interesting for you:
Regarding F-4U4 & 4B - i was never a fan and refuse to play them, but my observations are similar to your description.
Exactly!
I don’t want to be a smart ass either - but even energy states kill every K-4/G-10 & 14 - just noobs follow into an energy trap and stall out below a 109.
Alright, fine, you win. So, p-51-30 beats k-4 by “going into a merge at a very high speed”, same with p-47. Apparently both p51 and p47 somehow climb better than k-4 to get that massive energy advantage, and, I suppose, they retain energy in vertical better too.
I don’t know why “rookies can be stalled out” somehow dispells my whole argument, while your “overwhelming majority of kills on 109s and 190s” is solid proof. But I’m sure you’re a better pilot than me (no sarcasm), so I’ll concede and join all my 109 brethren you killed, if only in spirit :)
wooah dude stop it rn!!
maybe because of your personal experience in the yak3u you said these things but simply i did this or i did that doesn’t mean its the truth
look the f4u-4 at 4.3 and the f4u-4b at 5.7 aren’t the same plane the 4.3 pushes about 2400 hp while the 4b hits near 2850 at low altitude and around 2600 up high same airframe but totally different performance
the yak-3u has a beast of an engine giving it insane acceleration climb and instant turn ability especially at low to medium speeds that power lets it close and convert energy way faster than most opponents it hits 630 km/h at 200 m and 690 km/h at 6 km pretty good ngl but!!
above 2.5 km the bf109 k4 starts pulling ahead in sustained climb and high altitude speed and oh boi you said faster than p51h i tell you p51h can hit 676 km/h at 200m and 776 km/h at 6 km so the Mustang clearly outpaces the yak-3u at any altitude
here’s the key part about a skilled players in both a re.2005 versus a yak-3u in a turn fight the re.2005 will just slip inside the yak-3u every time landing multiple hits in a single pass by the time the yak-3u starts using its engine advantage the re.2005 already has 5-6 solid shots stacked up in practical terms a competent re.2005 wins 8 out of 10 encounters the yak-3u advantage only matters if the re.2005 pilot is inexperienced
the yak-3u is great in 1v many and going turning with everything because it had great energy generation from such good engine on light airframe
yak3u is faster than the p51h5 and f4u4b at low altitude and turns literally any plane around it’s br other than a zero. that isn’t a matter of debate it’s a matter of experience and gameplay lmao test it yourself. and the performance isn’t too bad at higher altitudes either since it’s so light but let’s not pretend that’s a big disadvantage bro because the VAST majority of fights appear at low altitude (plus it out climbs k4 lol.
re2005 is NEVER going to turn inside an yak3u lmao, it’s literally impossible the yak3u can literally do everything it can better the re2005 is a noob trap plane and has never been op.
Forum exchanges are not about winning or losing, it’s about exchanges from different perspectives.
You missed the point:
Merging at high speed does not mean that you have to perform a head-on (which i avoid as mouse aim is far superior) - the instantaneous turn of a P-47 or P-51 is far superior to a K-4 - so as long as the 109 is very fast they compress way harder - so after 1 or 2 turns the better sustained turn of the US planes kill you.
You don’t have to out climb a K-4 (which is not impossible) to enforce a high speed fight. Next time i face a K-4 i will share the replay - a replay says more than 1.000 words.
Bro the Yak-3U is criminally undertiered at 5.7 but this just isn’t true. The US planes you mentioned are both 30-40kph faster at low alt. The Yak-3U also has always been a plane that has insane sustained dogfighting performance but it can and will lose to planes that have tiny radius/instant turn rate like you mentioned vs Zeros. Planes that back up these characteristics with engine power are even more dangerous (e.g A7M, Spitfire LF mk9) forcing BNZ as the main method of attack.
From my pov the fellow player @The_diddler2 made some good points. Even assessing the A7M2 as “Super Zero” - you forget the P-59A.
I killed (besides some K-4s😎) quite a few Yak-3Us - in classic turnfights below 3 km started at very high speeds - the speed loss of the P-59 with the first turn glues you at their six and their superior low speed acceleration does not help them if you can easily follow every turn and stay the whole time 4-500 meters behind them.
Imho you missed the pre-nerf Re 2005 - even after getting uptiered to 6.0 they were absolute monsters and killed every LFMk IX Spit without any effort . The current 6.0 version has way less power…
Do I read it right: first there is the merge (I almost never head on in merges, not with 151 nerfed ballistics anyway), after merge p-51/47 does an an instantaneous turn (horizontal?) which k-4 tries to follow but can’t, then p51/47 goes into sustained horizontal turn which k-4, again, accepts, and loses
Huh?.. why on earth would you do that in a k-4? In a k-4 at energy disadvantage, you don’t turn, you extend away after merge while the p-47/51 turns and burns its energy, if p47/51 catches up, you split S, until eventually you reverse them, cuz both p51/47 are too heavy and don’t retain energy long term as well as k-4 does, that’s a fact
the cope is insane, dive speed is hardly a real limiting factor because you can catch them at low altitude so they’re just br throwing away their only advantage because the yak doesn’t care about physics when it maneuvers.
You dive on me in a yak, I dive away in k-4. You have to stop diving at 660 kph so you disengage and start shedding energy by maneuvering. You either just bleed it or trade speed for altitude. But above 3,5km it’s stops being a good trade for you. So you’re stuck.
I can gain more speed in a dive, and either just extend away and regroup and climb back up. Or even better , I then trade the speed advantage in a steep vertical climb i.e. either gain energy advantage over you or beat you in a stall fight
This is vs spitfires but same approach works vs yaks above 3km or with energy advantage
the yak can catch the k4 easily at all but the k4s ideal altitude around 20k feet in which the yak is going to be there first due to a superior climb rate, the yak3u doesn’t have to dive on you if can just keep getting a superior position and catch you because the k4 isn’t fast at low altitude and will not be able to gain a superior position over it.
Well you don’t have to bleed it at all, just fly level in slight dive, say -5 -10 deg.
The K4 is slower the lower you go. At see level the yak3u is 30kph faster. This is compounded by the fact that the higher you fly, the faster you are.
So, just wait, the K4 might be outrunning you, but it will burn the speed and you’ll catch in a 2 minutes top.
At sea level you end up in a plane that turn better, is faster and climb better. The K4 is more or less cooked.
And while the K4 has better acceleration above 3.5k, the yak3u is still no slough either, At 5k still get lose the fight, I’m not sure about the top speed tho.
The main difference about spitfire is that they are slower than you AND they loose a lot of energy when turning. The yak3 do not.
Whatever dudes, I tried to offer a bit of help for those struggling in german props but I guess I didn’t get the memo that the whole point is to complain about yaks, superprops and everything in between :)
