They can do what 109s do normally to spits and dive on it, or just head on, no chance 109s in that BR range wins those if u know what ur doing.
@REO_Speedwagon you are so goddamn right here. When i go 1vs1 against Bf109F, G, K or Fw190 and we both have the same energy state i know that there is 95% propability that I would win this fight. Early Messerschmitts (E1, E3, E4) are quite fast and nimble, but F, G, K versions are just pathetic. These machines don’t like to turn horizontally, they don’t like to turn vertically, you have to always have great energy advantage when you attack someone. Man, in last three days i was playing Bf109G-6 and it wasn’t pleasant experience at all.
I couldn’t won a fricking horizontal turnfight with P-51-D20, one of the worst Mustangs!!! Another time when i was doing energy trap and i was going down to stalled enemy i couldn’t pick my nose UP - when Bf109G dives it takes so much time to point your nose up that reminds me MiG-3 - what the hell? And the guns man, they are fu***** horrible. Poor ballistics, poor damage. Enemies cut your plane in half after 1-2 hits from their 20 mm cannons, but you must hit at least couple of times to score “critical hit”, despite 30g TNT equivalent in minenshells. And of course Snail doesn’t want to fix this bug - but hey, russian SPAA which has exactly the same MG151/20 has properly working minenshells XDDDD.
For me Bf109s (F-G) would be quite decent planes if three things will be fixed:
- Faster picking the nose up when ending loop - i don’t know how call this? Faster vertically turn time? Now it is just funny that picking your nose up is real struggle.
- Minenshells should de more damage than other nations cannon’s HE shells. Why 30g TNT is worse than 13g? Only Snail knows.
- Horizontal turn time - it turns horizontally like a fat American plane.
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Literally all the Bf-109 has to do is wait for the F8F to dive on one som1, and then all of a sudden the F8F is even more of a free kills than a bomber.
Well u can’t dive with him, u rip before him, and u can’t pull as well in a dive, since ur pilot gets knocked out when he gets G suits. Not saying 109s can’t deal with F8Fs, just saying, actually yes most 109s can’t deal with F8Fs, in that BR range G-14 can’t do anything about F8F, G-10 is slower and rips too fast, however K-4 does roughly fine, except the advantage is not so large as many thinks ‘Oh u can just simply out manoeuvre him’. The guns don’t help either.
WTF is 403 error now?
Lol that’s a good joke.
You should try it in custom battles, the 109 K4 can hardly do anything against a bearcat.
The only think which worked, and only work if F8F is too passive, is to doge the first 2 angle the bearcat will have and go sustained from hear, using the power of the K4 and lack of energy retention of the bearcat to slowly outclimb it. But even in this case, the bear can just go down, pick up speed, and cut in the 109 path to get a free shot.
Literally all the Bf-109 has to do is wait for the F8F to dive on one som1, and then all of a sudden the F8F is even more of a free kills than a bomber.
It’s true for every plane in the game, If you give your enemy altitude and position you will lose. Now what happens in the bearcat doesn’t give you a free kill? You will lose as long as the bearcat pilot has any semblance of skill
This looks like similar to my recent fly-out of the 190 D-12:
- Flying:
- Weapon damage:
Have a good one!
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I mean the MK108 does fine damage wise, but the ballistics… Especially lining up against the 131.
G-2 does wonderfully against the F8F-1. Unless the later models are for some reason worse, I don’t see why you would have any trouble fighting the F8F-1B.
G-2 does well against F-8F because unfortunately it is in fact better than the later models, which are tbf faster and better climbers but worse at turning.
The way I’ll put it is that the models after G-2 either does much the same turn wise or worse. (much the same for G-10 and K-4, worse for G-14 which is a heavy model) However they have gained speed and climb rate, which is no doubt useful, along side option of a 30mm.
Also I rarely find beating an F-8F1 an easy job with G-2 trop especially as u might find multiple passings are taken to take down that plane.
YES EXACTLY! What is purpose of this climbing spirals, energy trapping etc. if i can’t bring my nose to target xD??
In another battle I energy trapped Yak-3 3 times in a row but after a short dive i couldn’t bring my nose to him to shoot xD. I have never had such situation in any fighter except MiG-3. I always score a kill when i properly energy trap enemies.
You know which planes have similar issue? Italian C205s. They were quite good several years ago. Now they are like Bf109 and Fw190 - they are only good at flying fast in straight line and climbing. That’s all.
How often did u use them as primary / sole weapon?
I strongly recommend to use them more often - or try to use them in a 262 - in order to understand that the damage output is highly inconsistent. In one match one hit grants a kill - in the next you get 3 hits, no crit, nothing. Same story with 50mm HE in the 262…
Btw - i have no clue why you and others feed the troll in this thread. The player in question has lousy air vs air stats and very limited 109 experience. There is no need to comment anything from him.
I feel this issue is mostly an instructor one. For whatever reason, the instructor is needlessly aggressive in making you fly safe with german aircraft and denies a not insignificant portion of your maximum possible AoA.
Your critical AoA before stalling, assuming coordinated flight, is 17 degrees without instructor limits. Gimme a sec to check with instructor.
I’m pressing elevator button in a flat circle and it won’t go above 12 degrees.
With sim controls, I can push it to ~16 degrees where it starts to wobble and get unwieldy.
That’s 16.9 where I pulled too hard and stalled myself.
In max possible AoA before you eat dirt:
That’s how much turn performance you’re missing in RB F4.
I legit cant pull hard enough in RB to actually make use of my corner speed and I’m not losing any speed!
I’ll grant tho, it keeping your AoA low does help with sustained turns somewhat.
As an aside, F8F seems to have similar limits:
Nota bene: being able to turn more AoA is not always beneficial. RB F8F and Bf109 F4 don’t seem to bleed speed after going down to like 350 km/h IAS while the SB variants can and will bleed all their speed to 200 k/h if you so desire.
RB controls seem fine for best sustained turn but punish trying to use corner speed turns.
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I mean to me who uses it mainly on 109, it does feel like the damage is great cause i don’t normally know if I am hitting my 30mms and when I do, the enemy tend to be dead and then I go ‘great damage’. It does feel a lot more inconsistent on the 262 and the ballistics issue is even worse.
109s are amazing if you fly them correctly making sure you always have alt advantage and energy trap, which is easy to do with them. F4, G2, G6 are incredible. The more turn oriented ones are ok. G10/14/K4 are pretty meh these days and potentially slightly overtiered. 190s are pretty trash.
I’d much rather be in a 109 than a F8F, I find F8Fs high speed handling to be really terrible and they have a giganerfed rudder making getting shells on target sort of difficult. They are basically worse Yaks with more ammo.
Yaks are of course brokenly OP af, they always have been.
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As promised above:
A decent pilot with 7 kills in a 109 G-6 (5 fighters, 2 B-25s) - even as his opponents were not really smart it was obvious that he knows how to play and what his plane can do in the right hands:
Gaijin Entertainment - Single Sign On
He lost by tickets.
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The biggest problem for the 109 is that once you reach the later models they are eclipsed at what they do well by the Soviet (and other?) alternatives… within the context of ARB. Most fights start “mid” and go low. The 109s are still good in terms of their flight performance, but they’re definitely more reliant on careful energy management than some of the competition.
The 190 suffers from just being a brick generally. They are similar in some respects to the P-51D-30… the main difference/quirk being that 190s are wholly dependent on good flap usage to pull for just about any shot you might take if the enemy is even modestly alert/aware. Definitely a frustrating plane to fly in a lot of scenarios… you want to pull for a shot and the plane just doesn’t… and the flaps may not be enough to get you there. Ironically, it reminds me a little of early jets now that I a flying out some of those.
Speaking of the Bearcat… the hate here surprises me a little. It’s an excellent little BnZ plane well suited to the low altitude fights common in ARB. It’s climb rate often lets it achieve positional parity early game, if not out right superiority. There’s not much a German a pilot can do to force a fight the Bearcat pilot doesn’t want to take.
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Bearcats are not good at BnZ, they have horrible compression and really suffer in handling above 600 km/h. They have amazing acceleration, climb rate up to about 3.5k and very good medium speed maneuverability so they are good at what Yaks do which is low alt energy fighting. Yaks still handle quite a bit better and probably have even more ridiculous acceleration than Bearcats, but then they get very little ammo. A 109 in 1v1 can still come out on top of a Bearcat pretty easily if it starts with an alt advantage. Harder to energy trap Yaks because of their completely fictitious acceleration and energy retention (and they are smaller).
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Any plane can easily overcome any other plane if it has an altitude advantage* within reason
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Which climbs to 5-6k faster? F8F or comparable 109s?
This is a very nice way to describe the very strange BR settings of the 109s and their adversaries. 👍
Over the last weeks i witnessed dozens of encounters in which it was obvious that the 109s were beaten by superior hardware (and not by pilot skill) at the same or much lower BRs. And even at very high alt: A plain I-225 at 5.0 flies circles around a 5.7 109 K-4 - their high alt power is insane and they turn like hell above 7 km. So good I-225 pilots drag the fights always very high.
In the P-47 D-28 i have to avoid any fight as soon as an experienced pilot uses a I-225. U can’t go head-on thx to 4 ShVaks and you can’t apply stall fight or BnZ tactics as they are faster, climb better and outturn you below 500 kmph IAS. My sole advantage is the high rip speed - but sooner or later i run out of altitude.
Even in my P-59A i need to prioritize Yak-3Us and I-225s. I have to ensure to fight in an undisturbed 1 vs 1- otherwise i have to outrun/outfuel them.
So what can a K-4, G-10 or G-14 do? They can’t outrun, outclimb or outturn these enemies…
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