OK.Baz Meshupar has AN/APG-63PSP.
I understand.
By the way, why AN/APG-63PSP can’t use TWS & HMS in WT?
Where is source?
No one understands anything. We have no documentation on what the upgrade entailed. The IAF website lists extensive modifications that may have included all the avionics systems previously installed.
The new FCS I’m talking about refers to the weapons computer. All sources only mention the new weapon “computer” and not the new “radar”.
Also consider that when the IAF started the Baz-2000 program, they had a tight budget, and rather than buy a new radar, they decided to use the new weapon with a new weapon computer on the existing radar.
They are completely different upgrade programs with completely different purposes. The reason I quoted Kurnass 2000 from the IAF website is because it mentions that they received a radar upgrade.
But Baz Meshupar? only mentions new weapon computers. If they had upgraded to new radars, it would have been mentioned, or any news would have come out. Also, none of the sources mention that Israel has purchased APG-63(V)1.
Sources say that the F-15I Ra`am used
APG-70I which was detuned version
and later on israel upgraded to APG-86(V)1.
u think They threw away the APG-70I to garbage?
NO, i think this is one of the upgrades that came to the F-15C Baz aka “Baz Meshupar”
why we cannot just have fun with new models … just for the sake of Balance u could just rename APG-63(V)1 to APG-70I and just announce it as a balance as u did with the F-16AJ which needed a filler to the Japanese tech tree.
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They mention that the Baz Meshupar was equipped with the weapon computer used on the Raam, not that it was equipped with the radar used by the Raam. Weapon computers and radars are two different things. Weapons computers can be replaced and are separate from radars.
APG-70I? Don’t worry, it’ll be fine because they are on Raam. but not in Baz Meshupar.
The Baz upgrade program was started in 1995, the F-15I requirements were ratified in 1994. The US gives Israel money to purchase US equipment, that’s how their foreign defense aid works. All the articles mention avionics/sensor upgrades. Radar is a piece of an avionics package. APG-63(v1) production started in 1997, 2 years AFTER the Baz upgraded program was created, so I would never suggest they did install it.
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Weapon computers and radars can be replaced separately, and this is what was done with the Baz-2000. There is absolutely no source that claims the radar has been upgraded to the new APG-70 or APG-63(V)1.
You can solve this problem simply. All you need to do is bring in one source that states that Baz Meshupar is equipped with a new radar.
But you don’t bring in any sources.
And please stop talking about new electronic. I’ve already told you about them many times, and that doesn’t include the radar.
@_David_Bowie can u stop ignoring me and start replying to my comments?
another source -Configuration And Payload Of The Aircraft Employed By Israel In The Fight Against Hamas - The Aviationist
“the F-15 “Baz”, with all the variants from A to D, and the F-15I “Ra’am”. The fleet might further expand as at least 25 F-15EX have been requested to the U.S. government. The Baz has been upgraded throughout the years, bringing the aircraft to the Baz 2000 configuration with multifunction displays, AESA radar and the ability to employ air-to-ground ordnance, giving them capabilities somewhat similar to the ones of the more advanced Ra’am.”
Dude part of them still on F-15i Raam ,
But the whole point of the Baz 2000 Project is take F15I avionics and integrate them into a F-15A BAZ
None of use know what Specifically changed in the Baz Meshupar , and its probably classified enough to not get posted on any open sources in the web
So why just release a jet with 1/8 of its capabilities if u had no clear info … we had 2 weeks of Dev server and nothing was mentioned about it.
At least consider it for your playerbase as a Temporary solution until further updates…at the end we want to have some fun and good time.
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You still claim it only has an original APG-63 radar that was delivered with a previous F-15. IAF website says it has avionics upgrades. You have no sources to verify your claim it even has an APG-63.
Radar is a part of the avionics package. It does not need to explicitly state the radar was upgraded when the encompassing systems that include the radar was also upgraded.
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It’s an internet article, and it’s not even written by an Israeli. The forum you sent me refers to the USAF F-15. It’s not even worth reviewing.
There’s already a lot of material out there stating the upgrade, did you even read the quote I excerpted?
IAF website already stated that the same electronics as the F-15I is a weapon computer. I don’t know if you are ignoring it or not reading it.
- Aircraft of the Israeli Air Force 5: McDonnell Douglas / Boeing F-15 Baz by Ra’anan Weiss and Alon Koren
During the 1980’s the IAF accomplished a quantum leap with its equipment. As part of the yet to be terminated Lavi Project and the advanced F-16C and D variants that followed, numerous indigenous avionics and electronic warfare systems entered operational service. But the F-15, advanced as it may be, stayed behind the rest of the IAF arsenal.
The only existing modernization program for the F-15 was the Multi Stage Improvement Program (MSIP), conducted by the USAF for its Eagles during the mid 1980’s. Although this project was considered by the IAF, it was eventually not adapted due to lack of funds. Throughout the early 1990’s, when the next generation of IAF Eagles commenced to manifest itself as the F-151 Ra’am program, a substantial upgrade program for the ‘Baz’ was also considered for implementation.
The IAF had a vast assortment of modern avionics and armament to offer for its venerable Eagles. From Multi Function Displays (MFDs) and Helmet Mounted Sight within the cockpit, followed by Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation and advanced data-link systems and air to air missiles such as RAFAEL Python 4 and the Hughes AIM-120 AMRAAM.
All the above, coupled with new main and fire control computers formed the ‘Improved Baz’ program, launched during 1995. By 2004, all remaining airframes were upgraded to latest standard, fortifying the ‘Baz’ forehand position within the ranks of the IAF.
You keep parroting one argument over and over again, ignoring the fact that they are all separate equipment and can be replaced with new equipment. You continue to ignore the fact that the IAF website states that only other electronics were changed, not the radar.
BRuh I literally can’t with you. It says “All the above”
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You are simply asserting without bringing in any sources. Do you have any sources that you have brought in so far? You are simply asserting without anything explicitly stating that they were upgraded to APG-70 or APG-63(V)1.
Also, why doesn’t “Aircraft of the Israeli Air Force 5: McDonnell Douglas / Boeing F-15 Baz” specify the radar upgrade? They don’t specify the radar upgrade either, as does the IAF website. The book even went to the IAF and photographed the cockpit of the Baz Meshupar.
I hope you bring some meaningful material to the table and then join the discussion, until then I’m not going to give you a proper answer.
You think it is fair to release a brand new F15s and 1 of them getting gimped ?
all of this sources didnt said what Specific FCS components were replaced " it stated as “From” means it not JUST what he said…
i was reading that exact same book , when he could specifie stuff he would (like EW kits and such) …
It seems like u really not trying to solve it , cuz its all guessing atm … ( it could be classified and not being noted in any source probably , again we dont know)
I really hope to see a solution for your player base instead of canceling everything we trying to point out.
- EDIT
Are you really going with the go find sources WE ALL KNOW there isnt a source that indicate , Funny
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All sources definitely mention weapon computer replacement, not radar.
Also it doesn’t matter to me if you want buffs, they are not gimped, they are historically accurate.
@_David_Bowie
there u go - https://www.iaf.org.il/1742-26252-he/IAF.aspx
its in hebrow but i quote and translate .
נובמבר 1998: גלילת מטוס “בז משופר”
בשנת 1995 החל תהליך השבחת מטוס הבז ל"בז משופר" (בזמ"ש). התוכנית כללה שינויים מקיפים במערכות האוויוניקה ושיפורים בתצוגות תא–הטייס ובמחשב החימוש. בעקבות מקצה השיפורים מעריכים בחיל–האוויר כי הבז המשופר יוכל לשרת באופן מבצעי מלא עוד שנים רבות. בנובמבר 1998 נערך טקס גלילת המטוס הראשון ביחידת האחזקה האווירית (יא"א) של חיל–האוויר שערכה את ההשבחה המקיפה ובשנת 2005 הסתיים הפרויקט. כיום כל מטוסי ה–F–15 של חיל–האוויר הם בתצורת “בז משופר”.
the part i bolded saying the every current f15 (including I ) is based on the platform of the baz meshupar.
which basically mean that it cant have worse radar than current israeli f15 in the iaf fleet.
another source - https://www.iaf.org.il/4474-50271-HE/IAF.aspx
paragraph - “כשמדינת ישראל רכשה את מטוסי ה-F-15 הם הגיעו לזירה עם יתרונות עצומים ביכולות המכ"ם ואופי הטיסה כנגד מטוסי ‘מיג’ גבוהים ומאיימים”, הוסיף סא"ל ד’. “לכן ב-25 השנים הראשונות שלו בארץ הוא שימש כמטוס לעליונות אווירית. בסוף שנות התשעים ובתחילת שנות האלפיים עברו המטוסים שדרוג מאסיבי ששינה את פני המערך שנקרא המעבר ל’בז’ משופר. מהלך זה הכין את הקרקע לקליטת יכולות רבות שהמרכזית שבהן היא תקיפה, ומשנת 2002 התחילו בחיל-האוויר להכשיר את הפלטפורמה לקלוט נשקי אוויר-קרקע”.
i mean how can u achieve air superiority and both upgrade your attack abilities not by a radar?
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its not request for a buff …
none of the sources indicate exactly the “Baz Meshupar” System and part got upgraded.
The request is coming with balance , cuz leave it like that will result with no1 going to play it cuz its just going to get owned by the most of the 13.0 jets like Mirage 5F , F15C MSIP II ,F15J(m) and such that have most of their A2A capabilities.
Its about balancing it with the rest of 13.0 jets not buffing it.
This part means that all existing IAF F-15A/B/C/Ds have been upgraded to the Baz-2000 program, not including F-15I.
Also, that quote is available on the IAF website if you switch to the Hebrew setting. I already read that part.
The quote refers to air-to-air capabilities being the best in the first 25 years, not mean Baz Meshupar.
And the quote refers to Baz Meshupar as having improved air-to-ground capabilities.