That would apply if only a handful bought straight into top tier but if the huge numbers of novices invading top tier is an issue then it stands to reason that there are a big number of novices at top tier to be encountered. Logic.
Also explains the dwindling lack of quality in top tier and the terrible USA kill ratios that allegedly exist.
Also seems like a big number of level 100s have bailed out of the game completely or taken up resident at lower BRs where the game is still enjoyable, leaving the game to the newbie invasion.
Ah yes, because you (a ground main) is better at ground than me (an air main) means that I obviously dont know anything about BR balance on why the F-15A should be at 12.7.
I enjoy Naval far more than I enjoy ground currently. I am just working on Ground as its 1/3 of the game. I just have a long way to go.
Anyone ever going to fix the german fighters from Me-163 B-0 to CL-13 Mk6? They are all like complete 1.0 br too high.
Me-163 is from 1945. It should not fly against MiG-21 from 1980s. No need to explain further it’s just ridiculous.
CL-13/F-86 of pretty much any type are constantly dragged into 10.0 or 10.3 battles, where they just simply cannot reach any reasonable outcome. 9.3 CL-13 Mk6 has top speed of 1000km/h, no afterburner, 12,7mm machine guns for main weapon + 10G aim-9b’s, which also suck.
CL-13’s should never play against MiG-23’s or F-104’s and what not. Planes that fly +2000km/h, have way better missiles, have flares and missile warning systems.
I have started disconnecting every battle where I see our airfield having +1.0br planes. Better not spawn at all, disconnect, browse internet for 10min and try again.
I have no idea what variants they have. You can add to the list of planes sabre should not meet:
F-111A
F-8E
A-6E Tram
MiG21 SMT
Jaguar GR-1
J-35D
Yet my CL-13 Mk.6 fights these planes pretty much every battle.
Nowadays this problem doesn’t exist though, since I always disconnect before spawning when such ridiculous battles are presented for me. I got better things to do.
Maybe air battles should have max. 0.3 BR spread. That would help a lot.
Which are known for having some of the worst mobility for MBTs at that BR, so that’s not contradicting my statement.
It has no ERA compared to the T90A, and the T90A isn’t known for great armor to begin with. It still has the same driver port and lower plate weakspots, no ERA on the sides to lessen the impact of high-angle side shots, etc.
in most situations, it will not do a relevant amount of increased damage over even its 7.1s reloading brothers, who already have quite long reloads at that BR.
It is actually a glass cannon at 10.0 already. If you don’t struggle to pen a T-72A, you don’t struggle with the Object 292 either.
It should only go up in BR if its efficiency warrants it. You can’t just throw a 10.0 tank at 11.3 just because it has alot of pen but nothing else going for it. You’re overestimating the relevance of pen so much it’s amusing.
Which brings me back to my point, player opinions based on singular stats out of dozens of things to consider are so incredibly garbage it’s no wonder Gaijin doesn’t base their BRs off of it. In actual gameplay this thing won’t be all that good.
What does the pen matter if you get pushed by 2 tanks after your teammates around you died and you don’t have the reload to defend against them? What does the pen matter if you get flanked while engaged with other targets and can’t react in time because your agility isn’t good enough? What does the pen matter when someone gets your barrel or breach first because your gunhandling is subpar? What does the pen matter when you can’t retreat from disadvantaged situations because your reverse is barely better than a T-72? What does pen matter when you can’t snipe well because you have to expose your whole tank to get the gun on target, inviting everyone to shoot your lower plate, and can’t retreat back under a hill ridgeline quickly? What does pen matter when in CQC your own armor is irrelevant too, because it’s littered with weakspots?
Both MiG-29 9.13 should have R-27ER/ET removed, R-73 added and either stay at 12.0 for evaluation or be moved to 12.3. This chaneg would be better for historical accuracy as well as balancing.
A lot of those listed are ground attackers (not all but quite a few)
Issue is, they are often as much balanced around their performance in GRB as they are in ARB. But I beleive in june, they are changing that, with seperate BRs for air and ground for aircraft. Doesnt necessarily mean all those will go up anywhere, but it opens the door for them to do some fine tuning and it does make decompression a lot simpler in the future
Because it gets no attention whatsoever. The state of the Saab 32 line is not well. Both need to go down. The J32A with the weaker engine could go to 8.7 where it still has plenty of competition, the J32B would benefit a lot from going down to 9.0, it has absolutely no business facing 9.7 to 10.3 opposition almost every match. J32B is in a really tough spot right now and it is among my favorite planes in wt. please tell me what u guys think and whether or not this is the right place to drop a wish/demand like that. cheers
Except for them, the turret crew sits higher and their ammo isn’t in line with the lower plate (if the Leo isn’t bringing ammo in the frontal rack). T series blow up most of the time when you shoot their lower plate (bit of rng ofc) because you’ll hit the driver, spall into one or both of the fuel tanks next to him and hit some ammo behind the driver, Leos often just get immobilized there.
I’d argue that a small weakspot with some volumetric issues that can be bushed up to make it a guessing game is harder to hit than the entire lower half of the front hull, even if you try to aim center-ish to not just hit the fuel at the sides.
Like, if the only weakspot for the 292 would be the driver’s port? I’d call that good armour. I probably would not hit that reliably in a stress situation. But as it stands, there is a large area with a good chance to either explode the fuel, explode the ammo, or kill 2 crew because the turret crew sits so low.
Perhaps 1.0 br range in air battles is just too much. Especially in “realistic air battles” as that tends to then join 1945 planes together with 1980s planes.
Or then have a box to tick “What BR spread are you interested: 0, 0,3, 0,5, 0,7 or I like to get molested”
Ground battles don’t perhaps suffer from such brutality between top tier and bottom tier tanks. It does not require personal heroism to kill a IS-2 with Tiger1 should you be able to hit if from the side or to a known weak spot etc. However, in air battles there are no “flanking” nor weak spots unless top tier player flies like a complete moron. Me-163 now flies with 6min of fuel, no missiles, no flares and no radar warnings against 2x faster MiG-21s that have air-to-air missiles, better guns, flares etc. These two planes just simply should not be in a same battle. And this is just one example, the CL-13 sabres are also constantly fighting +30y newer planes that just simply are far superior in every aspect.
Disconnecting at startup is the only way currently available to enjoy the battles. “Pick your battles” as Abraham Lincoln once said.
So in other words it’s still better than half of all Russian top tier tanks in mobility, and therefore it isn’t at a deficit when comparing it to other Russian top tier tanks.
So in other words it has armor comparable to a 10.7 tank and the Obj 292 only significantly weaker than the 10.7 tank when both the T-90A and Obj 292 are moved up to 11.0-11.3? Sounds like it’s got armor that is way better than a 10.0 BR tank.
To correct myself (or really just correct my wording since I’ve pointed this out in the past) before I move on, the Obj 292 does pen like 10% less armor per second than other Russian tanks at 10.0-10.3, but it is able to just pen more armor directly rather than relying on shooting at weakspots.
But the ability to just lolpen all armor panels in the game is more than enough of an advantage, in addition to the larger-caliber round.
Uh, what??? There’s a literal mountain of difference between the Obj 292 and the T-72A.
On the T-72A, when using M833 (a 10.0 round), the entire front of the thing is pennable:
There we go, finally the Obj 292 acts like a glass cannon - at BR 11.3!!!
The Obj 292’s addition to the game means it should be a glass cannon. There is no reason a tank at 10.0 should just be able to lolpen everything in the game, have better mobility than half of top tier Russia, and have the armor of a 10.7 tank. The only way it can be balanced is if it is treated as a glass cannon.
Definition of a glass cannon: “Refers to someone or something that deals high amounts of damage but had a very weak defense or health. Often a term for games.” (yes I’m using Urban Dictionary as a source lol it isn’t on Merriam Webster or something more ‘official’).
Wow, the Obj 292 does more damage (from an APFSDS shell/dart) than anything in the game, so it’s got that first part down. Second, the weak defense - for the purpose of War Thunder that means weak armor or general survivability. The Obj 292 does not have weak armor until literally 11.3.
These are all problems with glass cannons, and it’s the cost of the extra damage.
Being flanked is something all tanks have to deal with, and most tanks don’t get over-performing ERA on the sides of their tanks.
The Obj 292 is a glass cannon and it is understandable that as a glass cannon it would have worse gun handling - but it really doesn’t have bad gun handling. In terms of Russian tanks it is the exact same (except for missing 18% vertical speed, which doesn’t matter in CQC) for all 10.0-10.7 tanks. So bare minimum, its gun handling compared to its other Russian top tier MBT’s means it should be 11.0.
When looking at other nations, it’s not even much slower than the turret traverse of the Japanese, Chinese, or British tanks around 11.0 (or even the 11.7 Leclerc or Leclerc S2).
This is just a quality of Russian top tier tanks, and from what I can tell it’s got the best reverse speed available (it’s the same as the T-80 line’s reverse speed).
It’s got the same gun depression as most other Russian top tier tanks, in addition to similar depression to Chinese (most have exactly the same), Japanese (2 degrees more), and Israel (2 degrees more).
It’s still worse than any other nation’s top tier tanks, and doesn’t have the reload to back it up. It’s easier to exploit it’s reload as an enemy, and it doesn’t have the mobility to counteract that.
No, in other words, it has worse armor than a 10.7 tank, and besides lacking the ERA, it also lacks smoke charges and thermals compared to the T90A, and has almost 50% longer reload.
It has armor that is worse than a 10.3 tank (Moderna, T-80B both have better armor bc of their ERA), so it makes sense to be 10.0 in that regard.
Even your needlessly extensive armor analysis shows its turret is made out of fucking paper. boo hoo, the UFP can catch a shot from a 10.3 gun. guess what, that guy can shoot you again before you’ve reloaded.
What hilariously idiotic unit is that? armor pen per second? if you already pen almost everything at your BR with 400mm pen, anything above that is useless. RPM is a much more important unit than “pen per second”. and the RPM for other russian autoloaders is almost 50% better.
Hell, the Type 10 is one of the best toptier tanks because it has the best RPM of all toptier MBTs with good mobility. That’s what makes a good glass cannon.
for people with the biggest aim skill issue, maybe. like seriously, even stock 120mm DM33 is more than enough at 11.7, a high pen round alone won’t make a huge difference. you need a good chassis to back that up. For high pen with slow reload, it would be much more preferable to be able to go hulldown well, so you can snipe.
On top of that, you don’t even pen all armor panels in the game. Leo2A5 and up still have enough turret cheek armor to withstand that round. So if they’re hulldown, you have to snipe the same weakspots as everybody else.
Same as you can’t pen challenger 2’s turret cheeks, ZTZ99A’s turret cheeks… they all have >700mm effective armor against APFSDS. Top tier Abram’s withstand it on the right turret cheek when facing them, too.
You don’t even have enough pen for the beak hull armor on the STRV122. Your glass cannon really is all glass and no cannon if you put it in toptier matches.
At toptier you either get strong side ERA (Russians) or better mobility to deal with flanking. Even just functional reverse to get out of there quickly can help alot, same as much better reload for not being caught with your pants down. If you shoot at something infront of you and you have to react to a flanker pushing you, even if you get your gun on target, those 10s will feel glacial in situations like that and get you killed.
ever had that weird thing where your aim is close to a wall or tank when you’re next to it and your gun goes up? it matters more than you’d think in CQC.
I’d also say you might shoot at heli rushers above you and need to get your gun down again quickly after that, but oops, the 292 doesn’t even have a roof MG.
you have worse gun handling than 10.3 Russian MBTs. That vertical targeting speed matters.
They all have ~28% better turret traverse, that isn’t negligible. British and Japanese also have much better reverse, half and less than half the reload time, and have smoke charges, so they have other important tools to react to tanks coming from other angles, too.
Also I think you’re looking at the outdated wiki page for the Leclercs. Check them ingame. They got buffed and have 23.8°/s turret traverse when fully stock, no relevant crew skills, no turret ring modification, no crew qualification. The 292 in the same configuration has 14.0°/s, so just barely over half of the Leclerc’s.
Like I elaborated earlier, it wouldn’t even fullfill the cannon part at top tier, and it won’t lolpen everything in the game, all the better armored turret cheeks are immune to it, same as Strv122’s beak. While it has better reverse than the T-72B3 and T90M, it’s still not adequate reverse. And it has worse armor than a russian 10.3 tank.
(also, good job for hand-picking the IPM1 for the 11.0 round for your narrative when the M1A1 already has the much better M829A1 at 11.0 and there isn’t really a good reason to play the IPM1 over the M1A1 now that both have the same reload ;))
all the other russian top tier tanks have almost 50% better reload that makes them alot better in disadvantaged situations. Anything beyond 1v1, reload really really matters. And even in 1v1, fail to kill or disable with your first shot and your enemy shoots back twice.
except its damage output is severely hindered by its reload. a type 90 can kill 3 tanks before you have your 2nd shot ready, and therefore can deal ALOT more damage. What do I need 700 flat pen and slightly more spall for when I already pen and one-tap enemies with the worse round?
This isn’t WoT where a bigger round deals more HP damage. I REALLY don’t get this weird pen >>>>>>>>>>>> every other parameter thinking.
the “extra damage” won’t matter in most cases and it is capable of less kills in the same timeframe as other tanks. so overall it will deal less damage than comparable tanks at 10.0, with a niche gimmick.
none of which have to rely on sniping because they have the reload and armor to handle CQC much better, and there pen matters alot less. if they do end up sniping, most of the other top tier russian have thermals for better spotting at long range, too. And smoke charges to help with falling back.
Same with Chinese tanks, but they also have much better reverse at top tier and better armor, gun handling and utility at 10.7 and up.
Japanese tanks have hydraulic suspension and therefore much better gun depression, did you only look at the stat cards?
(Israel is just sad and their tanks suck)
It feels like you really don’t know what is important at top tier. mobility and reload speed are key. The Type 90 has no reliable armor and an average pen round at best, but excells with its 4 second reload and is one of the best tanks at 11.0 that still works great in 11.7. THAT is a good glass cannon.
Hell, the 1s Abrams reload buff made them alot stronger. now the 292 comes around and adds 3s on top of what is already the worst reload speed at top tier, for pen and slightly better spalling that won’t matter for 99% of your shots because any other tank’s ammo is good enough already.
The 292 might not entirely be glass at 10.0, but it for sure also doesn’t fill the cannon part with abysmal reload for its BR.
Yeah yeah right. Don’t even want to debate because you missed the entire point of my message.
I’ll let the number of likes on both of our comments speak for themselves.
