Balancing .... (russian BR 8.7)

Type 88s going up as well 😕

Not a concern for anyone who plays and enjoys the Chinese tree. Why? Because 9.0 has one of the best vehicles in the game: AFT09. Any Chinese tank moving up to 9.0 is in very good company. How many other vehicles can you take to 11.7 from 9.0 and nuke T-80BVM like they’re nothing?

The main thing for me is that the PTZ89 stays at 8.7. That thing is what I love using most as 8.7 China. PTZ89 for tanks. WZ305 (uptiered, obviously) for anything moving in the air. The rest are fillers.


Reported and enjoy ban.

1 Like

Massively situational

That aside Gaijin is continuing to murder 8.7, “decompression” by ramming 2nd gen MBTs against 3rd Gen prototype racecars and modern IFV/MGS systems. And the 279/55AM-1 lose more vehicles that might have kept them in check

1 Like

I love how OP calls short rod APFSDS “effective shells”, when almost every other nation but USSR gets long rod APFSDS

1 Like

no armor best armor’ is literally the design philosophy of the 1960 to 1980 “of the WEST” , fixed it for you

And Japan. And Africa. the USSR and nations recieving USSR tanks were the only ones consistantly building heavily armored tanks. So no, not just the west.

I mean, it’s more fair to say every nation in the world that was domestically developing armor was doing it with the exception of the USSR and the UK.

UK was developing tanks with an emphasis on armor in mind as well.

T-55AM-1s are a standard 8.7.
All 9.0s, every single one, is superior to T-55-AM-1.

1 Like

T55AM-1 are better than almost every single armored 8.7 vehicle. It has better HEAT protection than the AMX30 Brenus that doesn’t even have a stab. It has better KE protection than the chieftan. It is nearly strictly better than the IS7. None of the M60s even come close.
It also has a significantly better engine than all the other T55/T62s. It has nearly the same acceleration as the leo A1A1.
The M60 TTS is very similar to the T55 AM-1. Slower, but better gun depression. Worse armor against almost everything, but close. +50 pen, but the T55’s ATGM brings that balance closer. The TTS is 9.0.

K… the last of the HEAT slingers are at 8.0.
T-55AM-1 is 8.7 where it’s almost exclusively APFSDS slingers.
Brenus doesn’t have a stabilizer, so it gets thermals and a lolpen round instead.

T-55’s ATGM is only useful on flat ground due to -5 degrees of gun depression.
TTS also has 428mm of pen vs T-55AM-1’s 254mm of pen at 100 meters 60 degree slope.
TTS also has thermals, is similar speed, similarly armored… TTS is FAR superior to T-55AM-1 and it shows in the TTS being 9.0 instead of 8.7.

M60A1 RISE benefits over T-55AM-1: Better APFSDS round, smoke grenades, gun laying.
Chieftain Mk3 even has a similar round to T-55AM-1 despite being APDS.
M48A2: No stab, but superior round, a lower BR.
Every Chinese 9.0 is superior to T-55AM-1.
Only Object 122MT is similar to T-55AM-1.

1 Like

Except in downtiers, which are a factor worth considering. Against anything that doesn’t get darts (The overwhelming majority of 8.3 and down), an AM is rather hard to crack. You need to aim for the breach or the LFP, anywhere else will bounce. Meanwhile, the AM’s dart may be rather weak, but it’s still enough to lolpen anything in a downtier. So while they’re trying to make their careful shot, you can just point and click.

And how does it pay for this advantage? Unlike the Chieftain (Which has worse armor than it) it has pretty solid mobility. The firepower isn’t as good as 105 APFSDS, but it’s totally workable, good aim will get it through most of what it sees. Honestly, what can’t it go through that standard 105 darts can? It struggles a bit with S tanks, but for every other tank I can think of, you’re aiming for the exact same weakspots as every other dart.

The TTS is slower, at 14 hp/t compared to the AM’s 16, as well as a marginally lower top speed. It’s also got much worse hull traverse.

As for armor, the TTS retains the M60’s achilles heel of a turret ring, that can allow high pen autocannons right through the front, let alone conventional tank rounds. Nor does the armor consistently defend against APDS, even through the ERA. 105mm APDS can go right through the UFP at 500m, let alone darts.

That’s not even mentioning the Chinese TTS, which doesn’t get ERA and is stuck with M735, which is currently performing fairly similarly to 3BM25. All it gets are gen 1 thermals and smoke grenades.

AM benefits over the RISE: LRF, acceleration, hull traverse, armor, lower profile, better .50 cal (Faster and controlled by the loader), safer ammo stowage.

And pays for it with abmysal mobility, no LRF, and worse armor.

No stab, or mobility, or LRF, or armor, sensing a pattern here yet?

Except for the TTS, as previously discussed. Can’t speak to the ZTZ88s, as I haven’t played them, but from a cursory look, they do have much weaker turrets and one degree less of gun depression.

In summary, what makes the AM-1 so strong is basically how little it sacrifices for all it’s advantages. The only things that hold it back are a kind of weak round, -5 degrees of gun depression, a weak reverse gear and a fairly slow turret. Compared to the other 8.7 MBTs, some of which lack LRFs, mobility, any useable armor, or even stabilizers, the AM-1 isn’t really missing anything huge. Compare it to a T-62 or Chieftain Mk 3, it’s hard to understand how it’s at the BR it is.

I"m not nessesarily saying it needs to go up to 9.0, what we really need is decompression.

Chieftain has similar armor to T-55A, and M60 has slightly more.
TTS is superior to T-55AM-1 in every way, but decompression would keep T-55AM-1 with Chieftain and other 8.7s.

1 Like

Assuming you mean AM-1, not even close. For the Chieftain, 105mm APDS can cut through the entire hull front from 500m, with the LFP being so weak that even 90mm M82 APHE can go right through at 500m flat on. As for the turret, it’s vulnerable both above and below the gun, while also having a large area to the left of the gun which can easily be cut through, which just so happens to cover the gunner and commander. And that’s not even touching HEAT, which the Chieftains are horrifically vulnerable to. Even 90mm HEAT can cut through the majority of the turret.

As for every M60 variant, I think this picture does a better job than words can:

So long as you aim anywhere that isn’t the exact middle of the turret, 105mm APDS is going to go through. That’s not even touching darts.

Apart from all the ways I already typed out above (I don’t feel like repeating myself). And no, The AM-1 would be above the weakest of the current 8.7 MBTs, while the strongest of the of the current 9.0s would move up to make room.

Why isn’t russia allowed to have a good lineup? Whenever one exists there is endless whining for it to be nerfed into the ground.

1 Like

Is it? It can nuke Leopard 2A7 with a single ATGM. I would call a vehicle that can be used at close ranges and long ranges, with 4x ATGM that can nuke anything (including those with spall liners), thermals, mobility… how is that situational? If you think you have to camp in the AFT09, you’re using it wrong.

The uptiering of the 279 to 9.0 actually helped USSR. At 9.0 you get to focus on 279 + BMD4 + BMP3 + T-62M1. A great line-up (if you have the vehicles - if you don’t have 279 and BMD4, then just uptier BMP3 to 9.3 ASAP). This leaves 8.7 for people to focus on great vehicles like the 435 and AMD. Soviet 8.7 is fine.

It’s situational because it’s an ATGM vehicle. It’s incredibly fun but I’m not going to say it’s some match for 2A7Vs consistently when you always end up on Abandoned Town/Sweden/Sun City etc.

wow It’s nonsense