A Typhoon has a lot of potential, I basically carried my team to victory in it in a GSB match the other day. 10 ground kills and 1 air kill. So its not that its unusable, but it is pretty unfair the nerfs applied to it.
I’ve also seen Tornado Gr4s wipe out an enemy team before and prior to the Su-34 being added, plenty of complaints about the Su-25SM3. So airframe performance is of little relevance.
Yes, though the PESA radar and inherrently small map size actually could be considered an advantage for the Su-34 as the R-77s are better at close ranges than AMRAAM and the Typhoons radar still has its problems. Especially when trying to find targets at shorter ranges.
You could, though that would still be really annoying in air modes, like air sim where you may want to run 18x FnF missiles.
I would simply apply my solution but have the SAL-only brimstones not increase the SP cost, at least not until all A2G weapons get exponetial SP costs.
We need two versions of Brimstones that we can select on the loadout preset, SAL only or FnF only with a max limit of 6 for FnF and no limit for SAL. I think that would solve most of the problems in so far as balance is concerned.
Here is the point that every jet/verhicle is overpower at top BR while you have good jet/verhicle it depend on the player skill. You can fly in SU-34 and still lose the battle if the op team can spawn jet fighter like F-15 or F-16 into battle and kill you SU-34/Eurofighter.
We need to get gaijin to stop giving artificial mechanics to weapons. If the brimstone had no option to disable the LOAL, then they should remove it until they feel they can add it with LOAL.
I really do not like this sudden shift to players who want to give weapons fake mechanics. At that point, just give the eurofighter agm65s.
Anytime I die to an SU34 and I don’t have enough SP to do CAP myself if I don’t see my team doing it I instantly leave the match. No point in being a free RP piñata there’s absolutely nothing you can do most of the time
also has a maw. the typhoon is far better A2A wise than the Su34, the maps may be smaller but that doesnt change how the R77 performs, the Su34 if it fires it from a low speed situation essentially ruins any advantage the R77 has, as well as this the EF2000 can easily dodge and outmenueve missiles from opposing planes and SPAAG whilst maintaining a far more energy than the su34.
The su34 is a strike air craft, it absolutely is better than most of the top tier roster in game bar maybe the F15E for ground strike capabilities. But as soon as its pressured or pressed its advantage is pretty much gone.
unfair? 10 ground kills with it is not unfair at all, im all for making stuff historically accurate. However the typhoon right now is absolutely wrecking lobbies at top tier right now to give it full access to 18 brim 2s would make eveyr other plane obsolete. Personally i feel adding all of this tech this soon was a pretty stupid idea on gaijins front as the games barely balanced for 10.0 cas never mind some of the most modern equipment in the world flying around.
the performance is a massive part of it. The GR4’s and Su25M3’s will get shot down far, far easier than the typhoon ever will.
The typhoon itself IRL is one of the best platforms ever created.
Its multirole capabilities are insanely powerful. However that doesnt exactly translate into war thunder at all in a balanced or fair way, if its balanced, its gonna be unfair, if its not balanced and fair weapon wise then its gonna be incredibly difficult to even play against.
18 x FnF missiles i doubt will ever see warthunder mate im sorry i seriously do doubt it.
think about everyone cryin over the su34 with 6 long range FnF missiles.
Now imagine how insanely busted an incredibly potent platform with 18x FnF long range (not as long range but still long range) missiles would be. Even in air sim that thing would absolutely farm house before half hte roster could do anything.
and in GRB well thats evident to what it would do.
So why did they remove the grom’s? at a certain point the game cant facilitate it.
spawn an SPAA. plenty of the su34 pilots dont sit back out of range and tend to fly in closer to fire said missiles.
Like was done with grom’s they couldnt facilitate them being added without causing mayhem then dont add it.
then its A historical and why bother getting hte EF2000 when 2 out of the 3 trees have access to a gripen with the mavericks.
OVERALL: I personally believe none of these platforms should of been added, both ARB, GRB, GSB and ASB were no where near ready for them they are absolutely miles ahead of the competition in their respective fields and without an overhaul of the game they never will function even remotely near what theyre supposed to.
10 ground kills, completely uncontested, the enemy didnt once try to spawn in an SPAA like the Pantsir and only once did I find myself against an Su-34 which I destroyed before he had retracted his landing gear.
If there is a Pantsir up, your only real option is to climb to 30-40k ft and drop a PW4, Brimstones arent really usable. Imo, its not that the Typhoon is overly OP when it comes to CAS, but rather that German, Italian and British mains have been use to using low performance aircraft for CAS for the last 2 years and we have finally been given something good.
Given the sheer advantage of FnF missiles. Typhoon with Brimstone 2s would still likely be the 4th strongest CAS aircraft after the Su-34, Rafale and F-15E
Who cares in air modes? If 18x FnF Brimstones are too OP for air modes then when are they going ot remove GBU-39s from everything for also being too OP?
Because there is a massive difference in range here. FnF Brimstone 2s would still likely be limited to tpod range (20km) and so you owuld have to get close. Grom’s were removed because, using CCRP, you could fire them litereally cross map at bases and there was little you could do about it.
This is the same reason why A-10Cs or F-15Es can delete entire battlefields in a single pass with GBU-39s, they have to get close first.
The gripen was quite a substantial addition for cas 4 x mavs and a great platform with a shedload of CMs.
do you mean GRB? or SB cause in GRB pantsirs while have long range are not some ungodly SPAA. (they are the best but its not a death dome). if i can get in with a harrier GR7 or an F15A with GBU-8s u can with a typhoon n brimstones. however thats not the point.
The rafale I havent seen yet so cant say.
The su34 cas wise is the second best right now as you lose access to a lot of munitions unlike the F15E which can carry 6 mavs, and guided bombs.
With brimstone two it would become either best or 2nd best.
the platform itself is miles better than the su34 and the F15E last time i checked is also worse performance wise.
how much damage can one do to a base?
whats the distance of the brim 2?
as well as that you can ripple them off and demolish ground units like no ones business, even if they are moving.
The GBU39s are GPS guided and can miss a lot of the time.
big if they are limited to the Tpod range.
Im aware as to why they were removed, im saying they were removed because the game literally could not facilitate their addition at all.
at a certain point the game needs a rework no amount of balancing or dicking about with the stats of a missile will make them function correctly.
there brimstones as it sits right now, in GRB absolutely shit house lobbies, as well as that you also have people istting literally in orbit dropping GBUs with the typhoon, as far as GRB goes, we need counters to these standoff weapons, not more of them added into the pile ontop of the others.
A bit, it still had some pretty major limitation though, like the fact it could choose between A2A or A2G and not really both. Also, might have a high CM count was only possible through the BOLs which you cant equip with A2G, so if you had 4x AGM-65s, you only had 80 LCMs. But does little for Germany who I think is the main powerhouse behind the CAS as very few actually play Britain or Italy at top tier GRB due to the lack of ground vehicles for either nation.
In GSB, I was being killed whislt taking off from the AF by the Pantsir whilst in the Typhoon. Given how hard it is to manage Tpod and fly low and fast in GSB, your only real option is alt not low and fast. In GRB, it might be possible to do more reliably, but every single time I’ve tried (and not many because I rarely get out of spawn in the CR2 before being killed) the Pantsir happens to be looking in my direction and shoots me down instantly.
Why? It still can only engage 1 target at a time. It cant volley fire like everyone else can.
brimstone or GBU-39? Very little I think, small warhead. Though Grom-2s werent removed only the rocket assisted Grom-1s. So they can still be used vs bases, just not cross map
I’d guess maybe 30km from low alt. 40-50km from high alt. So less than the KH-38 still. But you would still be required to laser spot the target during the last few seconds, something not required with any other top tier AGM.
GBU-39 already demolishes ground targets if they arent moving and they only miss if you dont aim them correctly.
Yes, FnF Brimstone can deal with Convoys. Which no one would ocmplain about, they are a pain in the butt target to deal with for anything else and quite frankly that is the exact target Brimstones were designed to deal with. Its like saying AS-34s arent allowed to be used against ships.
Of course, but if they arent, then so is nothign else, and KH-38s then have a 70km range?
Still more than the Brimstone 2. and still likely limited to 1 target at a time due to SAL, not FnF.
Yes, but the cat is already out the bag. if Brimstone 2s must be denied for balancing reasons, then remove KH-38s, AASM and AGM-65s, and everything else. Its just unfair that the Typhoon alone has AGM nerfs but no one else does. They didnt turn around to the F-16C or F-15E or Su-34 and say “for balancing reasons you are being limited to an ahistorically earlier version of the AGM you can carry, so F-16/F-15 you are having AGM-65As and Su-34, you are having KH-29s” because that is essentially what they have done here.
You can take the 4 x AGM65s and 2 x 9M thats sufficient enough.
I mean 80LCMS is still pretty damn good, compared to the rafale getting 32 flares and a shed load of chaffe.
german cas before the addition of the EF2000 was pretty pathetic in all honesty. you would rarely see the odd su22 out trying to do something before its FM would get it absolutely dropped out the sky.
Hate to say then you need to learn better how to dodge the pantsir man, i can avoid it with a hunter F58 never mind an EF2000.
They are great spaa, and can be a pest when not expecting it, but the trick is to be flying defensive around the battlefield before going near it.
Brimstone 2 is FnF no? or do you mean as sal? and irregardless of that brimstone 2 is faster? so it would be at least better for the plane anyways.
Yes but none of these other planes carry 18 of their missiles. and call it 40km high alt, that is insane range for stand off weapons in this game.
its not designed to handle this level of gear at all with the current systems in place
again 6 KH38s on a pretty poor platform compared to 18 x brimstones on arguably the best platform in game right npw.
IF they remove the SAl and give it FnF it has to be limited to a max of 6 missiles.
again theres a massive distinction, i thought the same till ive seen them all in action, the euro fighter platform is substantially better than the competition, and only decently better than rafale.
It has 18 x brimstones, EVEN you managed to get 10 kills and 1 A2A kill, thats nearly 2 thirds of the enemy team wiped out.
IF it gets FnF its going to get Ahistorically nerfed and have access to an exteremely limited number of them.
and when the F16 was dropped it was limited to a 9g turn the F104 could pull a better sustained turn than an F16 which made littel to no sense.
AIm54s with the F14 are still Ahistorically nerfed and have done fine.
The Su27 and Mig 29s FMs were butchered for the longest time there Ahistorically.
There are a plethora of A historical changes to tanks, jets and boats all in this game that make little to no sense.
Id rather see them all fixed than get new shit crammed in each update.
Also a caveat, in top tier GRB almost every game i do in germany at top tier we are winning now on all fronts, cas, cap and tanks.
They are absolutely steam rolling lobbies, the EF can equip great A2A missiles and smash down any and all enemy cas before they even get a chance to fire any of their FnF missiles off, this includes the su34 and the F15E.
in almost all my games that i died to cas it was infact an EF2000 or F15E, not a su34
it has great missiles, but in the bracket, and environment its not some unstoppable power house.
Given the F-16C, F-15E, Rafale and even the Su-34 can carry as many or more AGMs, alongside both IR and ARH missiles. Its quite a blow. F-16C for example can run 2x Aim-9M, 2x Aim-120A and 6x AGM-65Ds
Right, and if you are flying defensively around the map and still happen to be starring in your direction when you pop up to guide the brimstone? Only option is to abort and let the Brimstone just smash into the ground. Meanwhile a F-16, F-15, Rafale, etc, can pop up, fire off a FnF missile then dive back down to safety.
Brimstone 1 should be FnF. Brimstone 2 is dual mode still, but has an upgraded motor for increased range or faster at close range.
I would propose SAL in Ground modes, FnF in Air modes.
and none of them are limited to SAL only weapons. SAL mitigates the quantity advantage, if we have to be ahistorically limited to Brimstone 1s as well, then they should be FnF. Its unfair to apply 2 major nerfs to the Typhoon, when litereally no one else has even a single CAS based nerf for any of their main A2A weapons.
if Su-34 is a “poor platform” then the Tornados need to be dropped down to 10.7. I know its worse than the Typhoon, but to call it a “poor platform” is pretty dishonest as well. Its a perfectly capable aircraft in most forms of Combat, of course it wont out dogfight a 14.0 aircraft, but it destroys basically any at 13.0/13.3 with ease.
Ground modes. Once FnF IS added to them, I would propose exponetial increase in SP cost past 6. balance/restrict them that way. As for air modes. I really dont see why killing AI targets needs to be balanced at all. 9/10, the AI target isnt moving, meaning GBU-39s destroy them anyway and F-15E can carry 28 of them I think. Why Brimstones would be considered OP in air modes vs AI tanks is beyond me.
But whilst limited to SAL Only. I see no issue of 12-18 AGMs (assuming you are running no PW4s which I always do).
So why isnt the Rafale limited to no FnF?
Why wasnt the F-16C limited AGM-65Es when it was the best airframe? Same for the Gripen?
I dont see why suddenly the Typhoon must be nerfed for balancing reasons when none before it was.
that was mostly with PW4s not Brimstones. I was running 4x PW4s and 6x Brimstone. I think only 2 or 3 of those kills were with Brimstones
I was the ONLY aircraft and no one spawned in SPAA. no one, it was like shooting fish in a barrel, I would have gotten as many A2G kills with the Tornado.
Dont care for GRB, thats fair, but for air modes it shouldnt be limited even slightly. but if we are limited to no FnF, then we also shoudltn be limited with a very weak AGM that was never even equipped to the airframe.
and in most of the times i’ve tried to play top tier, Its the Su-34 wiping out the teams. Shortly after the december update, I remember being in a match and the top 2 guys on our team were in the Su-34 with 10+ kills each.
There is a solution thats not being discussed, removing aircraft from GB.
I know, how dare I, but just hear me out.
Remove aircraft from GB but let helos still participate.
Make a new “Combined Arms” game mode were the map sizes are at least half the size of current ARB map sizes.
At that size there is plenty of room for tanks to be spread out, and for CAS to have an opportunity to avoid AA like the pantsir.
But for CAS to get ground kills they would actually have to hunt for targets or communicate with their ground forces.
Everyone wins with this fix. CAS could have its correct weaponry with out being nerfed unfairly, ground forces would still be relevant, and the over all game would be improved with something new to do.
I edited my reply, i was talking about ground battles in general. Current ground battle map sizes make it way to easy for the current CAS of certain nations to obliterate most of the enemy team without any decent counter.
And thats why a combined arms game mode should be implemented so those vehicles could still be useful.
There are still plenty of ground vehicles that Gaijin can easily add to all of the tech trees to solve this.
Another way of looking it it was discussed in another post about removing “nation” as a consideration for the match maker in arcade and realistic battles as most nations have copies of tanks from other nations anyways, and those copies would have to be blocked from use in simulator battles anyways.
So what does it matter if both teams have the same nation playing on them for arcade or realistic?
Just another thought but the SU 34 and current Euro fighters arent a balance issue for ground battles in general? Any decent player of those vehicles can easily wipe most of a team without worry, especially the su34 as it has the pantsir on its team.
Currently there are too many balance issues created by Gaijin’s implementation of the su34 vs the nerf that the Brimstones got for aircraft to be fairly played in ground battles.
Then there is the simple argument that ground vehicles cant be played in air battles (why cant we spawn ground vehicles near friendly bases to protect them) , so why are aircraft in ground battles?
Top tier has a major balancing issue vs CAS, because everyone should have gotten Pantsir level SPAA 2 years ago and by now everyone should have gotten even better.
But at all other BRs, CAS is pretty balanced imo. Was playing quite a bit 10.7ish recently and most SPAA are a threat to basically any CAS. Its pretty closed to balanced and below that, the balance favours the SPAA, with most “CAS” actually fairly under-powered and minimal threat, heck, by the time you get down to props. most tanks have MGs on their roofs which deal with CAS 80% of the time.
This argument has always been… wierd for me. Because there are ground vehicles in air battles, they are just controlled by AI, though outside of Sim, you can rarely actually attack them, and if you have ever played Sim. You would know that player controlled SPAA would be quite a major nerf for the SPAA we have to deal with.
Also, what other place is there for most CAS aircraft or helis? Is there really a decent RB gamemode for either? Not really. The argument could be made that for many CAS aircraft and the helis, there isnt a decent gamemode for them without having to play tanks. ARB is virtually DOA for anything that cant dogfight with the fighters and heli PvE is so trash, it barely works half the time.
So if you want to play a heli, or any number of CAS aircraft, like say a Jaguar, your only real option IS GRB, because the gameplay doesnt exist elsewhere for them. (unless you are willing to play air sim and few are, but that does nothing for helis) And you have to slog through playing tanks before you can play the aircraft you actually want to play. Half the reason I even bothered to grind top tier ground, is so that I had a chance to play the Apache in a decent gamemode, though the balance is so bad that the Apache is nearly unplayable.