Given every plane at top tier brings atleast 4 fox3 its not surprising
Take a look at your stats. I won’t keep this convo anymore.
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nah this is pure cope, u have flankers on both sides, rafale never faced itself, and still strong asf
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Indeed
Actually stats are quite interesting positive kd in all flankers (tech tree)including the fullback and 79/81 in the mig 29smt
The statshark estimate for low speed performance for the F-16 is more accurate than numbers output by WTRTI.
That might be the case for the F-16, at least at that extreme slow speed, you also said that WTRTI would have trouble equating that at slower speeds and I can see that. What about 500kph to 750kph STRs? Are the numbers way off relative to the full turn time calculation?
Regardless, the Su-27 has better energy retention/sustained turn rate in game against the F-16 block 10, while Statshark indicates the exact opposite, so statshark is lying.
Its one of the reasons I don’t trust the E-M data there. It’s inconsistent from jet to jet.
WTRTI gives me consistent relative readings across all FMs, so took those values as my reference. Even if the values are not true, relative to each plane they are reliable. After watching your videos, in the future I will try instead to use full circle times and measure them by matching frames.
For just comparing jets to see which one is turning better, I think the value it gives is still usable for quick relative comparisons, just not technically correct.
WTRTI data at lower angles of attack will have less error.
When comparing WTRTI data to Statshark at medium speeds, the difference is usually within 1/2 degree per second.
My experience in testing new Su-27 flight model in 1v1 in Sim is that it is roughly even with the F-16 Blk.15. Your experience in RB might be different due to instructor limits or how the planes is limited at higher speeds so it doesn’t pull as hard as the F-16 which consequently makes it gain more from a higher starting speed if both players use keyboard or mouse aim for turns.
Yeah, I just did a 700kph IAS test with the Su-27SM, and the results were just ±0.2deg/s off from the STR WTRTI shows which is probably nothing since thats well within user error as I’m not using any good software to time the frames. And way off from what statshark says.
Su-27SM took ±32s to complete 720deg which translates to a 22.5deg/s. WTRTI was showing around 22.3deg/s. Statshark says it would do 21.35deg/s which is a lot lower.
I counted 2 turns from time 0min32s to 1min04s, which is 32s, but the frame times slightly changed on the youtube upload relative to my original file… I counted a full turn whenever the top mirror crossed that base target icon.
The instructor already pulls too hard on each jet, I need to ease off in order to have a decent energy retention. The F-16 block 10 can’t really force the base su-27 into a 1C, the su-27 will just outrate it and eventually kill it.
Reversing with counter 2C tactics is not doable against the flanker with the F-16 because the flanker can just pull AoA to brake if needed to stay behind the F-16. And at slow speeds the flanker outrates the F-16 quite fast. Also the flanker is very strong in 1C regardless, just can’t keep doing 1C scissors while going vertical with the F-16. Thats the only thing the F-16 can hope for.
The block15 is even easier to kill.
This is relative though. Different instructor schedules will alter how well a plane transitions from high speed to low speed in the game. Instructor enforced AoA limits also have noticeable impact on how planes behave at low speeds; i.e something like Mirage 2000 receives large handling benefit with sim controls.
At equal merge at sea level the winner will come down to who has better understanding of the plane. There is now a narrow speed range where F-16 will outrate the Su-27. The larger error is the Flanker energy retention at high speeds is implausibly high when compared to the flight manual. Also the Flanker lack of lift at low speeds is something that is still exploitable but just to a much smaller degree.
You mean the mirage 2000 in sim is able to pull higher instantaneous turn rate (higher Gs)? I use full controls sometimes when going at very high speeds in a dogfight to turn more with trim controls but if I am not careful I might rip my wings.
I don’t think there is any difference in flight performance itself and you can still use full controls on airRB, which I do sometimes, but thats more when I do the mistake of starting too fast.
Now I know the mirage2k compresses a lot at speed (plus the instructor limits), so going full controls in a high speed merge is a lot more useful it that jet.
We switched planes, same end results. I am able to manage my speed in the F-16. It just doesn’t manage to outrate the flanker, the flanker can match the same rates at lower speed so even if the su-27 player doesn’t manage its speed as well, I won’t be able to catch him around the rate fight anyway unless he really does a bad job at it.
Before this last buff to the flankers, the su-27 already matched the STR at high speeds to the F-16 block10, block50 and F-15A, but the F-16A would still be better in a dogfight because of the unsustained energy retention in hard turns. Now the su-27 outrates it by a fair margin and has also better unsustained energy retention at high to medium speeds at least.
For comparing unsustained energy retention (block15 vs su-27). I did a quick comparison test before while turning at max instructor starting at 1000kph on each, the F-16 will do 2 complete turns in about 29.5s and the Su-27 in s25.8, the su-27 will also exit the 2nd full turn with more speed to boot. This is when I started saying that I suspected the flanker to be better than the F-16 block15 in a dogfight and went to test it in duels. It ended up consistently winning against even the block10 if I forced the rate fight, which was quite easy to do.
To be fair we did all testing in rb controls. In sim controls I’m sure the block 10 would have a better time killing the 27
I did use full controls in both ahah. I even abused the trim tricks
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Oh lmao, in my arb controls I don’t use sim at all (I play rb on keyboard and mouse, and sim with a controller so it’s basically impossible for me to switch modes mid game in rb)
I only used them mostly because I lacked ace crew on the flanker and in some merges I did the mistake of going too high speed in both. Full controls wouldnt be needed at all if merging at a decent speed under 900kph on either jet. If you intend to go 1C in the first turn you should be slower than 800kph on either one so its not an issue I think, the instructor allows very hard pulls under 800kph.
Usually, in air RB the instructor will pull to the point on normal speeds to the very limit of the plane lift, more than that and the jet would just airbrake with no extra turn rate to compensate, just extra AoA. It’s very noticeable on older jets.
Btw I use “R” as a control cycling keybind. I’ve used that for a long time, mainly because there was no AoA button like there is now.
@Thodin This is what I’m afraid of once January statshark statistics drop.
SU-30SM2 is arguably the best top tier jet in the game, but once statshark statistics drop, it may show that the stats are not as high as the Rafale because the SU-30SM2 faces itself and so the vehicle statistics evens out even if the aircraft is better than the Rafale. Then you’ll see users pointing to the Rafale’s higher statistics next month to shut down any criticisms of the SU-30SM2’s performance.
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Even though I’m playing SM2 and have a pretty good K/D ratio, I still haven’t gotten over my Rafale phobia when I see the name Rafale appear on my radar after they terrorized the ARB for a year @@.
I just clutched an AirRB match with the su-30sm. Eventually a 1v1 against a typhoon. Poor thing didnt stand a chance against constant spam of R-77s while essencially notching
