flares are not strong enough and i dont just mean SAAB BOL flare, the 9L seeker is just crappily done
Lol I have never seen my harrier get that hot
did a 9L write this post
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Well, I also spoke about the R60M for balancing. There’s no reason why missiles known for flare resistance under the right parameters should have 0 for both historical AND balance reasons, even more so when they’re forced to fight top tier fighters with both ARH and IRCCM missiles.
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I think it’s amazing the way Harrie was coded in the game, he’s not an engine that divides into jet engine exhaust with TVC, he’s coded as if there were 4 engines
No, this actually incorrect. The game isnt coded like that.
All heat signatures are based upon thrust. The more thrust the hotter your airframe is.
The Harriers have 2 major issues when it comes to defending
- A lot of thrust
- an inverted thrust curve (they gain more thrust at lower airspeeds, where most aircraft lose thrust)
This is what makes you a hot aircraft, defending is really easy when you are at high speed (like near flat out) but the moment you slow down, whether that be due to a dogfight or when you turn hard to jink a missile, your thrust increases significantly and thus changes the “thrust to flare ratio” that the game uses for flare resistance.
Me and matrix tested this, when flat out, 1 flare instantly defeated pretty much any non-IRCCM missile, but at 420 kts, which is not an unreasonable speed to be at during a dogfight… 8x flares couldnt defeat an R-60M fired at 3km
This chart was put together by dataminers for how it all works:
and was confirmed by a tech mod:
Now they could adjust the heat signature using the same methods used for the Su-25s and F-117, but gaijin currently doesnt believe there is any issue and they want highly specific documents that probably dont exist to prove its wrong
I’m pretty sure flares aren’t moddled as being hot (unlike planes and rockets), because AGM-65s are completely unflarable.
every VTOL vehicle in the game is coded like this, especially those with more than one nozzle.
Each nozzle is coded as if it were an engine.
Yak38m, herrie, avb8+, It was the way the devs managed to make the vehicle work in the game’s spaghetti code.
That’s why an aim9l becomes almost an aim 9m when fired at these planes.
This is because it is almost impossible to escape missiles with an gov irccm when fired at a harrie.
there were even some bug reports about it
Again, this has literally been confirmed by the devs to not be the case. You can ask @Gunjob if you want. Especially the Harriers that have a single engine and 4x exhausts and not even 4 engines. So that doesnt even wrok either.
Then how could they be so hot, because they don’t even produce that much thrust? My own theory is that something to do with how vtol planes are modelled causes some massive heat signature increase.
At max thrust the harrier produces less thrust than an afterburning J-8, Mig-23, nearly as much as an f-104S, and a bit more than a Mig-21bis and none of those planes have any issues flaring missiles. I’ve also noticed the same massive heat sig issue with the yak-38 too which produces even less thrust without the 2 front engines active.
There’s a good chance this is because of how the CMs dispense, because there is no way that can happen without user error in my experience.
There must be some other factor here that we dont fully understand, but based upon the devs, tech mods and dataminers, the Harriers issue isnt that it has 4x engines, but because it has a high thrust and an inverted thrust curve (which is about to get even higher)
At high speed, 2x flares (they release in pairs) instantly defeated the R-60M fired in an identical manner . The only variable we changed was the speed in which the Harrier was at. At 420kts, 4 presses (8x flares) did nothing.
Interesting. I’ve never dug into the files (honestly no idea how to) so any technical information is great. It’s interesting that heat stats are based upon thrust and not the conditions of the engine exhaust.
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What about double engine planes like Tornado? Is it doubled the heat signature?
The system is a clever short cut, because in most cases, as the engine output increases, so should the heat.
There are just a few wierd edge cases where it just straight up falls apart. Like the Harriers and F-14s are hot and the F-5s are cold.
But the system is showing its age in an era of IRCCM and soon IIR
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I have no idea. Though I actually find the Tonkas fairly reasonable to defend against IR threats, same for other twin engine aircraft like the Bucs. And the F-5s are ice cold.
But at the same time the F-14s are wierdly hot and no one is quite sure why the F-14s are so hot relatively speaking
Does thrust affect all aspect lock on range? I know they’re cooled seekers that target the friction of a plane moving through air, but you know Gaijin.
Yeah. more thrust = hotter target = longer lock range.
At least put simply.
Friction heating will take over, but I think this requires very high supersonic speeds t hat most aircraft wont encounter.
Also no idea what exact affect AB actually has
Well, if the thrust aspect affects how well IR missiles track, I will assume so as well. Gaijin probably doesn’t model air friction as that’s a whole set of jumbled coding b/c you have to look into not just air speed but temperature and altitude as well on top of frontal area of each aircraft
Also, my plane today got taken out by aim9p on the airfield I’m idling engine at 0% That shouldn’t happen right? As I’m 0kph and not putting out any thrust.
No, probably what took over was airframe/engine heat. If you had switched your engine off, then it wouldnt have tracked, but probably just enough to get a lock.