Are Bombers now too fragile to play?

Problem with this is… unless your a veteran you can barely score.
There are so many slow bombers in BR 2-4 (I’m looking at you Britain) that they never make it to their destination, regardless of how they fly.
I never fly straight to the base. But in trying hard to avoid the fighter screen, I’ve had battles ended before I could drop once because it takes so bloody long. And stock bombers have no way to gain modules except the hard way - by dying.

As for Panther D - are you saying 5.3 is too high? Or too low? Same BR as Tiger, and they seem pretty close. The Panther turret rotation of 3.6-5.1 is a huge disadvantage compared to many tanks, including the Tiger H1 (7.1-10.2)

On a complete tangent, where the heck is the exit/logout button for forum? Can’t find it…

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Firstly, the logout button is on the profile section if you click your avatar in the top right. As for what you ahve said about the slow bombers, i would want them to go down, them being slow doesnt really change in the hands of a new or veteran player. The panther D is too low in br. the Tiger H1 is too low in br, both of these vehicles can be morepowerful than most 5.7 vehicles if player correctly. the reason they are so low in br is that the majority of players who play them are newer players who often will do things like take full ammo. next time you play some 5.3 just have a look at all the tigers you kill, and check how many of them have full ammo

Thanks for info on logout.

Curious how I can tell if they have full ammo? (relatively new to the game so don’t know all the hidden gems…)

pretty much if they have ammo in the space above the tracks on either side of the hull. in that area, there are 4 4x4 racks that fill last, if you shoot a tiger in the side and it has full ammo, it is more or less a guarenteed one shot. next time you kill one watch the kill replay and it should show you where he has ammo stored

in general if you didnt know, you shouldn’t take full ammo in any tank, you want to take as little as possible without handicapping yourself later in a match if you survive, i generally take 20-30 shells depending on the vehicle. therea re a couple of very specific vehicles that only can carry 8 or so shells and taking full ammo on them is almost required, but both are open backed tank destroyers so your ammo is the least of your worries

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Uncle I have to first of all must say how much I really enjoy your posts. You consistently present a clear, cogent, and edifying argument which is a real pleasure to absorb. However this time, you are quite wrong. The YB-17 was available in 1935 whereas the B25 wasn’t until 1939-40. Citation ( Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress - Wikipedia ) Reference ( North American B-25 Mitchell - Wikipedia ). So Historically speaking the first B17 was available BEFORE the Mitchell. The game would have one believing the timeline was reversed. Now the Superfortress (B29) was actually available by 1942. The game is implying it wasn’t until the advent of the jet era ( 1945 ) which is complete bollocks. The stolen, pirated, copied, reversed engineered B29 Soviet version the Tupolev Tu-4 , WASN’T available until 1949, which was squarely in the beginning of the jet age with P-80’s, Meteors, (and the notorious MiG 15 with it’s Rolls Royce engine provided by British imbecile extraordinaire Stafford Cripps) and what not. So actually it would be precisely historically accurate to place early models of the B17 along side the B25 in rank 2.

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Mare! I think you missed my points, or i was not clear enough. I would like to answer like following (just valid for props):

  1. WT is no simulator, the BR system tries to flatten actual combat effectiveness gaps in order to make a video game playable.
  2. You proposal to decrease BRs in order to make certain planes more “survivable” is comprehensible, but won’t change anything.
  3. Following you logic in your last post (in service) you should be consistent and set the Me 262 at the same BR as the B-29.
  4. I have no clue what you mean with “available” - but B-29 saw combat mid 1944, same as the Me 262. Your 1942 figure must be a typo.
  5. The order of appearance of planes in a tech tree has more or less nothing to do with irl events or time of active combat and follows mostly other rules.
  6. Lowering planes active in 1944 and 1945 to stupid low BRs like the P-39 N or P63 A is owed to the misuse or inappropriate actions by their pilots. Even a 109 F-4 from 1941 eats a 1943-1944 B-25 or B-17 for breakfast, just by their design, so reducing the BR s for bombers like early B-17s or B-25s just prevents the majority of pilots from learning.
  7. With lowering ranks from rank III. to rank II you eliminate the ability of those planes to do daily/special/BP tasks, i am not sure if you have considered this.

The main issue with bomber game play is the huge gap at around BR 2.7 and above. In the lower BRs most bombers are protected by their spawn altitude and the low high alt performance and insufficient armament of most fighters.

So the average pilot comes to the conclusion (and imho illusion) that playing bomber is a milk run and is not forced to improve regarding positioning, map knowledge and target selection.

In addition the game itself has so many “features” which were implemented to make the game playable for masses and to supplement PvP interactions. So hitting a prop bomber far away outside any real combat ranges is no challenge with mouse aim and instructor, the weak damage models of bombers is part of this.

Finally the motivation of people playing bombers plays a significant role. So either you want to grind or just to fulfil daily tasks or you want to have fun and you want to contribute to your team effort in order to win the game.

Unfortunately the last portion of players is quite small and there are actually just a handful of light or medium bombers capable of making a difference. And making a difference requires actually to be smarter than your average fighter opponent and to find the right strategy for each potential scenario.

And you won’t make a difference by bombing a base, you need to distract enemy interceptors - either by luring them away from your climbing fighters or by damaging or kill them. You might need to kill a few enemy bombers or at least damaging or tracking them for your fighters and you have to learn to “read” a match.

So sometimes it is better to bomb some ground units to reduce tickets, sometimes to kill a base or sometimes just try to surprise enemy fighters by bombing them on their airfields - even if you risk a 0 point score in case you miss.

All in all - u have to be more experienced than most of your enemies and your bomber should be able to be played in an offensive and defensive role. If you are not a wizard like hitman (watch his bomber vids) or this koma guy (frequently aces in Ki-67) you have to chose your bomber not due to sentimental reasons - you should chose a bomber which can make a difference.

A last word regarding to defend vs fighters going for bombers. Have in mind that you should divide those players in 3 categories:

  1. Players with daily or special tasks (" kill x bombers")
  2. Players new to the game or unable/unwilling to kill enemy fighters
  3. Players just looking for ez kills

Usually experienced players go for fighters first, but you find a lot of experienced players in group 1 and 3, even in group 2 you find guys with 12.000 kills and 600 deaths - the are eager to get 13.000 kills with 600 deaths. You can very often scare players away with precise long range gunnery - as they are then look for easier targets. As a basic rule - pilots of group 1 and 2 follow you even into your own airfield aaa and will try to ram you when out of ammo or damaged.

But the majority of bombers i see dying are not even flying evasive and they are relying on ai gunners, can’t fly and and use gunners simultaneously (=autopilot off) - and it looks like that they have zero clue that their gun range with 0.50 cals is insane. You get easily hits and crits at around 2.4 km (when chased) whilst a chasing fighter needs to close in to 1.8 km to get crits with 0.50 cals.

So your goal should be to keep them as long as inside yours, but outside the gun range of enemies at your six. This simply does not work if the bombers is to slow or too low when attacked; so preparing for a fight begins long before the actual attack - situational awareness and right assessments based on correct estimations of relative and absolute positioning vs enemies is the key.

Based on my observations the overwhelming majority of bomber players sees playing bombers as a tool to get somewhere and not to enjoy the here and now. That’s why the fail to have fun - and as a few posts earlier some fellow players confirmed - a bomber can decide an win games; it depends on the BR, plane selection and individual experience (and passion level) to make a difference.

literally the only reason i ever pay any attention to bombers, i use the Do-335A and the 30mm will destroy any bomber in a couple of shells, there is no balancing change that will stop that

B-29 Reference Britannica : B-29 | Definition & Facts | Britannica.

I don’t need to open any links. B-29s saw 1st combat mid 1944.

Prototypes don’t count, 1st Me262 same year…so what?

If prototypes don’t count then delete half of the Soviet tree. And toss the XP-50 etc … You can’t have both sides of the argument Wicky ;)

Ideally, we should get a bomber variant of the Mosquitto that has no guns, but is so fast nothing can even come close to catching it, But that would not be fun for the other team, no matter how realistic it might be. Whilst I’d absolutely love a bomber variant of the Mosquitto, I suspect we havent seen one and may not see one because how the hell do you balance it? It has no guns, so cant fight back, but also cant be so fast nothing can catch it.

This is why historical balance just doesnt work in WT. Its why at top tier you see 2008 ish era jets like the Su-39 or the 2003 J8-F put up against 1990s era Tornados and F-16s. IRL is full of one sided fights. THat doesn’t work in a game. That being said. I do think all bombers need a BR drop and maybe a small starting alt buff. But I think ultimately we need a redesign of How ARB works and how BRs a determined from multi-gamemode aircraft

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Sry but you:

  1. are telling here fairy tales about availability of planes
  2. propose nonsense about downrankings of planes
  3. can’t distinguish between maiden flights and operational service
  4. arguing with reality in war thunder if it fits to your pov
  5. refuse to accept reality if does not fit into your pov

…and reply with a flat stupid comment to a very long answer reflecting all aspects of bombers in war thunder with insisting on 1942 for the B-29? I mean alone that (and the way how) i answered to your nonsense post should have give you an indicator that one of us has very limited view on certain things.

A blind man saw that you have room for improvement regarding know-how of aviation history, bomber game play in wt and how this game is structured and works.

So i was polite and referred to a typo - there is no need for harsh wording if somebody has no clue about what he is talking about.

But you 2nd reply is simply disrespectful. “Wicky” - who do you think you are?

Like irl i refuse to communicate when minimum standards are not met. You are the 1st on my “ignore” list now. Stay happy with your “Pipi Longstocking” approach trying to see the world like you wan’t it to be, but stay out of any serious discussions at least with me.

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Seems like Morvan offers an argument and you offer tantrum when your statements are proved wrong. Sorry to see your such a snowflake Wickypoo. BTW the summer event Girl Scout really fits you. Unfortunately there are just too many Divas in this game, and I really didn’t think that you were one of them. … But you have offered some really insightful commentary, and thank you sincerely for that. All in all GG👍😉

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you’re wasting time, use Yak-9T, lots of chinese B25 bot at that BR and you can one tap them very reliably with the NS-37

Only take full ammo in Assault mode - doesnt seem to make much diff there. You get crippled ur pretty much a goner anyway.

But thanks for the tip about the replay - had never realized it gave that much detail on enemy kills.

Yeah, I think Gaijin really screwed the pooch on the Mosquito. Does not perform even close to what I expected.

Try to use it as a fighter and it’s too sluggish. As a bomber it gets caught all the time by planes like the XP-50 that are both faster and climb better.

Does not seem worth playing.

It’s because the variants we have are not meant for those roles. The one with the 20mm was used as a night fighter and for strafing targets. the one the AT gun was actually used most often for hunting U-Boats and other naval targets. Neiter were really meant for the kind of combat in WT. (if memory serves me right)

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg_Q_YxB9ww

Whilst one can carry some bombs, its not really enough to be worth it and the wieght/drag from the guns does slow the aircraft a lot.

Does not seem like much of a place for the place in this game. Very few bombers to hunt if it goes without ordinance, and fighters always outmaneuver it.

Gaijin needs to make some of these more playable regardless of “realism”.

They already threw realism out the door with tanks like the German Churchill. Germany did NOT field platoons of captured Churchills. They found them obsolete and used … TWO.

Yep, I wouldnt say no to a more usable Mosquitto, though I would want a bomber variant, a 3.0 premium would be good for it I think.