This was definetly true, but now you have Contrails, does it matter any more? You can’t really be sneaky, so instead I think your best bet is just to run the gauntlet and hope you can get through. I genuinely dont know though, I rarely touch ARB, and even rarer touch anything below Br9 ish these days
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You have the same effect when u fly the Jap B7A2 at BR 3.7 in RB - i enjoy since months from time to time flying on some old pacific maps - accompanied by 1 or 2 revised /new looking maps.
Of course you fly a pure JP team and you meer the usual US/GB XP-50/ Wyvern mix, but the majority are small 8vs8 matches in the 3.0-4.0 range.
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the contrails can be a problem but a good flight path can negate that.
The shackleton for example or pb4y are low alt bombers.
adjust flight path, adjust altitude, wait for opportunity to come in for bases.
The method has always worked.
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One has to learn to fly bomber tactics. They don’t need a buff Obeewan.
Use the force.
Are the challenging and difficult? Sure, but can be done.
Do they win games,? Yes.
The tag on this discussion is Arcade but mant talk about RB
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actually yes, i would agree with a br increase of those P-47s, i really enjoyed playing them and had at leat a 4 k/d in the D-30, and when i play to spade i go for max kills and dont really care about dieing so thats not reflective of a player playing carefully
I believe that vehicles should be balanced off their potential in the hands of a good player, if you dont do that you get things like the Panther D being 5.3
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stay on topic lol
Same here, but wt thinks otherwise. And to be fair - as long as mostly tankers fly bombers - they are good at tanks, but can rarely use the full potential of a bomber - i still see the main problem in the comparably low entry level and the total absence of valuable in-game tutorials (attached to the UI) regarding how to use them with some success and to survive.
Anyway, this absolutely stupid simple average approach for BRs by gaijin ruins this game. Just look at those masses of Wyvern abusers - absolutely disgusting gameplay with k/ds of 15:1 or more just by running across the maps. And killing the bases foreseen for Halifaxes or Sterlings so that these poor guys die (un case they made it that far) most of the time without the chance for a drop.
Some of those Wyvern jockeys even try very high alt fights - i critted recently one at 9.800 meters and he outdove me in seconds - despite having a rip speed of 870-880 TAS at high alt im my beloved SM 92, i had no chance to catch him.
Off topic P-47
Like the 5.0 D-30 too, i like the extremely good dive speed and high speed handling - and the airbrake is extremely helpful to park yourself behind F4U-4bs trying to do a high speed reversal (“classic roll from side to side”) - with the right timing for the airbake you just spray them down as you never overshoot.
But gaijin decided to put the chinese version at rank III with around 3k SL repair cost and the Italian at rank IV with 9k repair cost. Classic nonsense just aimed to discourage IT players.
Problem with this is… unless your a veteran you can barely score.
There are so many slow bombers in BR 2-4 (I’m looking at you Britain) that they never make it to their destination, regardless of how they fly.
I never fly straight to the base. But in trying hard to avoid the fighter screen, I’ve had battles ended before I could drop once because it takes so bloody long. And stock bombers have no way to gain modules except the hard way - by dying.
As for Panther D - are you saying 5.3 is too high? Or too low? Same BR as Tiger, and they seem pretty close. The Panther turret rotation of 3.6-5.1 is a huge disadvantage compared to many tanks, including the Tiger H1 (7.1-10.2)
On a complete tangent, where the heck is the exit/logout button for forum? Can’t find it…
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Firstly, the logout button is on the profile section if you click your avatar in the top right. As for what you ahve said about the slow bombers, i would want them to go down, them being slow doesnt really change in the hands of a new or veteran player. The panther D is too low in br. the Tiger H1 is too low in br, both of these vehicles can be morepowerful than most 5.7 vehicles if player correctly. the reason they are so low in br is that the majority of players who play them are newer players who often will do things like take full ammo. next time you play some 5.3 just have a look at all the tigers you kill, and check how many of them have full ammo
Thanks for info on logout.
Curious how I can tell if they have full ammo? (relatively new to the game so don’t know all the hidden gems…)
pretty much if they have ammo in the space above the tracks on either side of the hull. in that area, there are 4 4x4 racks that fill last, if you shoot a tiger in the side and it has full ammo, it is more or less a guarenteed one shot. next time you kill one watch the kill replay and it should show you where he has ammo stored
in general if you didnt know, you shouldn’t take full ammo in any tank, you want to take as little as possible without handicapping yourself later in a match if you survive, i generally take 20-30 shells depending on the vehicle. therea re a couple of very specific vehicles that only can carry 8 or so shells and taking full ammo on them is almost required, but both are open backed tank destroyers so your ammo is the least of your worries
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Uncle I have to first of all must say how much I really enjoy your posts. You consistently present a clear, cogent, and edifying argument which is a real pleasure to absorb. However this time, you are quite wrong. The YB-17 was available in 1935 whereas the B25 wasn’t until 1939-40. Citation ( Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress - Wikipedia ) Reference ( North American B-25 Mitchell - Wikipedia ). So Historically speaking the first B17 was available BEFORE the Mitchell. The game would have one believing the timeline was reversed. Now the Superfortress (B29) was actually available by 1942. The game is implying it wasn’t until the advent of the jet era ( 1945 ) which is complete bollocks. The stolen, pirated, copied, reversed engineered B29 Soviet version the Tupolev Tu-4 , WASN’T available until 1949, which was squarely in the beginning of the jet age with P-80’s, Meteors, (and the notorious MiG 15 with it’s Rolls Royce engine provided by British imbecile extraordinaire Stafford Cripps) and what not. So actually it would be precisely historically accurate to place early models of the B17 along side the B25 in rank 2.
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Mare! I think you missed my points, or i was not clear enough. I would like to answer like following (just valid for props):
- WT is no simulator, the BR system tries to flatten actual combat effectiveness gaps in order to make a video game playable.
- You proposal to decrease BRs in order to make certain planes more “survivable” is comprehensible, but won’t change anything.
- Following you logic in your last post (in service) you should be consistent and set the Me 262 at the same BR as the B-29.
- I have no clue what you mean with “available” - but B-29 saw combat mid 1944, same as the Me 262. Your 1942 figure must be a typo.
- The order of appearance of planes in a tech tree has more or less nothing to do with irl events or time of active combat and follows mostly other rules.
- Lowering planes active in 1944 and 1945 to stupid low BRs like the P-39 N or P63 A is owed to the misuse or inappropriate actions by their pilots. Even a 109 F-4 from 1941 eats a 1943-1944 B-25 or B-17 for breakfast, just by their design, so reducing the BR s for bombers like early B-17s or B-25s just prevents the majority of pilots from learning.
- With lowering ranks from rank III. to rank II you eliminate the ability of those planes to do daily/special/BP tasks, i am not sure if you have considered this.
The main issue with bomber game play is the huge gap at around BR 2.7 and above. In the lower BRs most bombers are protected by their spawn altitude and the low high alt performance and insufficient armament of most fighters.
So the average pilot comes to the conclusion (and imho illusion) that playing bomber is a milk run and is not forced to improve regarding positioning, map knowledge and target selection.
In addition the game itself has so many “features” which were implemented to make the game playable for masses and to supplement PvP interactions. So hitting a prop bomber far away outside any real combat ranges is no challenge with mouse aim and instructor, the weak damage models of bombers is part of this.
Finally the motivation of people playing bombers plays a significant role. So either you want to grind or just to fulfil daily tasks or you want to have fun and you want to contribute to your team effort in order to win the game.
Unfortunately the last portion of players is quite small and there are actually just a handful of light or medium bombers capable of making a difference. And making a difference requires actually to be smarter than your average fighter opponent and to find the right strategy for each potential scenario.
And you won’t make a difference by bombing a base, you need to distract enemy interceptors - either by luring them away from your climbing fighters or by damaging or kill them. You might need to kill a few enemy bombers or at least damaging or tracking them for your fighters and you have to learn to “read” a match.
So sometimes it is better to bomb some ground units to reduce tickets, sometimes to kill a base or sometimes just try to surprise enemy fighters by bombing them on their airfields - even if you risk a 0 point score in case you miss.
All in all - u have to be more experienced than most of your enemies and your bomber should be able to be played in an offensive and defensive role. If you are not a wizard like hitman (watch his bomber vids) or this koma guy (frequently aces in Ki-67) you have to chose your bomber not due to sentimental reasons - you should chose a bomber which can make a difference.
A last word regarding to defend vs fighters going for bombers. Have in mind that you should divide those players in 3 categories:
- Players with daily or special tasks (" kill x bombers")
- Players new to the game or unable/unwilling to kill enemy fighters
- Players just looking for ez kills
Usually experienced players go for fighters first, but you find a lot of experienced players in group 1 and 3, even in group 2 you find guys with 12.000 kills and 600 deaths - the are eager to get 13.000 kills with 600 deaths. You can very often scare players away with precise long range gunnery - as they are then look for easier targets. As a basic rule - pilots of group 1 and 2 follow you even into your own airfield aaa and will try to ram you when out of ammo or damaged.
But the majority of bombers i see dying are not even flying evasive and they are relying on ai gunners, can’t fly and and use gunners simultaneously (=autopilot off) - and it looks like that they have zero clue that their gun range with 0.50 cals is insane. You get easily hits and crits at around 2.4 km (when chased) whilst a chasing fighter needs to close in to 1.8 km to get crits with 0.50 cals.
So your goal should be to keep them as long as inside yours, but outside the gun range of enemies at your six. This simply does not work if the bombers is to slow or too low when attacked; so preparing for a fight begins long before the actual attack - situational awareness and right assessments based on correct estimations of relative and absolute positioning vs enemies is the key.
Based on my observations the overwhelming majority of bomber players sees playing bombers as a tool to get somewhere and not to enjoy the here and now. That’s why the fail to have fun - and as a few posts earlier some fellow players confirmed - a bomber can decide an win games; it depends on the BR, plane selection and individual experience (and passion level) to make a difference.
literally the only reason i ever pay any attention to bombers, i use the Do-335A and the 30mm will destroy any bomber in a couple of shells, there is no balancing change that will stop that
I don’t need to open any links. B-29s saw 1st combat mid 1944.
Prototypes don’t count, 1st Me262 same year…so what?
If prototypes don’t count then delete half of the Soviet tree. And toss the XP-50 etc … You can’t have both sides of the argument Wicky ;)
Ideally, we should get a bomber variant of the Mosquitto that has no guns, but is so fast nothing can even come close to catching it, But that would not be fun for the other team, no matter how realistic it might be. Whilst I’d absolutely love a bomber variant of the Mosquitto, I suspect we havent seen one and may not see one because how the hell do you balance it? It has no guns, so cant fight back, but also cant be so fast nothing can catch it.
This is why historical balance just doesnt work in WT. Its why at top tier you see 2008 ish era jets like the Su-39 or the 2003 J8-F put up against 1990s era Tornados and F-16s. IRL is full of one sided fights. THat doesn’t work in a game. That being said. I do think all bombers need a BR drop and maybe a small starting alt buff. But I think ultimately we need a redesign of How ARB works and how BRs a determined from multi-gamemode aircraft
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