they should ideally be weaker but aint noone gonna say that except the bravest of us (me)
Fighter mafia killed bombers yrs ago…
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It’s absurd seeing how dumb are the arguments of fighter mains in this comment section.
Yes, bombers in War Thunder (and many Strike Aircraft too) are far too fragile compared to what they were IRL. A B-17 IRL could tank multiple 20mm Minengeshoß rounds without even flinching, whereas the B-17s ingame will have their tail completely sawed off if a few 7.92mm machine gun rounds hit it. I’m not saying Bombers should be capable of tanking 100 20mm rounds or 20 30mm rounds, but taking down bombers should not boil down to “hold W (or whatever button you use for WEP) until you are 500m away from a bomber’s rear, then hold Mouse1 until he dies”.
The defensive gunners were also nerfed beyond uselessness, they only begin to function if an enemy aircraft is closer than 200m, and that is provided you have a lvl75 ACE crew.
The fighter mains bitched that they could not simply kill bombers without activating their braincells, so they cried in the forums until bombers turned into the pitiful shadow of their former selves.
Edit: lots of spelling corrections, originally made this post on my Android phone with its tiny keyboard, but now fixed all the horrendous spelling mistakes thanks to the power of a proper computer keyboard and Grammarly.
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The defensive gunners were also nerfed beyond uselessness, they only begin to function if an enemy aircraft is closer than 200m, and that is provided you have a lvl75 ACE crew.
This is probably the biggest nonsense in the game that exists…
In reality, there were so-called death zones for fighters that attacked bombers…
To give you an idea, for the He-111 or Ju-88 it was around 500-600 meters, for the B-29 it was around 1000 meters. The death zone, meant that was the effective range of the bomber’s on-board gunners…
Effective range, of course not absolute 100% kill…
The 210 meters for the gunner’s automatic fire, especially when the bombers fly alone in the game, is complete nonsense…
But of course, imagine that shooting down bombers wouldn’t be such an easy kill as it is at the moment …
I can already hear the cries and wails of the players who play fighters…
Everyone wants to be like Hartmann or Kozhedub, bomber pilots and gunners are mostly unknown…
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This is actually not correct - i explained this in another thread:
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Those are bots, the 0.21km max engagement range applies to player-controlled aircraft only. It would be nice if Gaijin would at least make AI gunners on player aircraft on the same level as the ones on AI aircraft.
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Dude - when i write B-25 and A-20 G bots - it is logical that i mean player controlled aircraft with bot scripts, gaijin banned a lot of them, but you see still a few. The 0.66 km value (probability & tracking) value is decisive. That’s the reason why so many idiots (including me) got damaged or killed by them.
Btw, there are no B-25/A-20 ai planes in the game. The closest are B-26s starting at 5.0 in Air RB.
Totally agree but gaijin wont listen.
Without the others help the survivalbility of bombers in AB ≈ 0,many of the time you can’t even drop your bombs way out.And there are some gamemode that bombers can’t play at all such as capping point.Gaijin hate bombers so much,so why didnt they delete the bombers?Pathetic.
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“they should ideally be weaker but aint noone gonna say that except the bravest of us (me)”
Not sure that requires bravery, maybe incredible chutzpah, or perhaps an IQ under 80, or some combination of those two. But bravery? ehh no.
They always were, and rather pointless in both Arcade and Realistic Air. You do not survive a battle, ever, with exception of one ro two planes and BRs. Reaching your bombing point is uncommon.
There is not really any point of playing Bombers in WT. Suggests that a new mode should be brought in for them - using some creative thinking.
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Just read the whole thread and use your experience advantage and you can be decisive; but bomber game play is simply too demanding and for most guys just boring if you are not smarter than your opponents.
The fact that bombers were nerfed to death is true. In addition a lot of highly capable fighters are way too low in their BR, and i agree in general with your pessimistic view on the actual state of bomber game play.
Nothing more relaxing than playing the Ju 88 A-1 (BR 2.0) in Air RB.
I flew just for fun ~ 140+ sorties in that plane - and i still can remember the 2 times i got shot down in it; the first time i was killed by bugged mid map AA, the second time by a stat padder in a premium JP 109 (with around 170 days fighter experience) clubbing at rank I & II.
If you watch this replay - you might see why i have a 80% WR in it. I just flew it to test the new customized payload options as i saw that the max load increased from 1.900 kg to 2.400 kg.
Battle summary & tactic
Right after spawn i flew away from enemy bombers, trying to stay outside the 9km spotting range and flew a large detour. Skip to 19 minutes - i spent 12 - 15 minutes to climb with 2 meter/second to pull my plane up to 7.500 meters as i am helpless vs undertiered US trash like the P-39 N (BR 2.7 in Air RB). So by climbing i could exploit the only weakness of the P-39 (poor high alt performance), whilst giving me a realistic escape chance back to my airfield.
Perfect bomb run, leading to a massive ticket ticket lead late game in a pure 1 vs 1. High speed dive back to my airfield and forcing this wannabe clubber (look at his vehicle stats) to overshoot 2 times by using my air brake whilst dodging incoming shells.
My plan worked and finally he died thx to my af aaa.
Depending on his positioning another way to win would have been to fly away from him when he was approaching and just stay high and fast - my only job was to stay alive for 3-4 minutes in order to end the game by tickets after 25 minutes, so instead of flying to my airfield there was a high probability that he would have not been able to catch me in time if i had chosen another route away from him…
I couldn’t agree more, despite Wick’s penchant for nits, you have resonated with the central topic. The fighter mafia stomped their feet and cried until the Great Snail caved and transformed Bombers from interesting fun challenge to bad joke - To appease the brain dead gimmie brats.
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I’d actually offer to give bombers their old 2013 damage models as well as 2013 gunner performance and give a special increased kill reward for specific bombers like the B-29 specifically in order to incentivize fighters to invest their time preparing to make a proper attack, rather than giving it up because it’s more efficient to kill 2 fighters and a couple of ground targets than chasing one bomber for 15 minutes.
I really don’t see the point of the argument of “but 4 B-29s can end a match alone if they work together!!!”, well, yea, so do fighters! If 4 highly experienced P-51H-5s work together, and BnZ the crap out of anyone who approaches them, they can completely dominate a match. I think this asymmetrical fight scenario of lots of fighters hunting 4 really dangerous bombers is really unique and interesting compared to the giant furball matches we have now.
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Indeed.
Wake up ! Such a mode for bombers does already exist. It’s Sim Battle.
I think you mean “Dying to a Me262 after a single pass five minutes after takeoff in your B17” Battle
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I think a new poll is merited at this point, unfortunately I don’t think the ‘New’ forum supports it … (or if the dev’s ever get to see it because of the pro-fighter bias 😒 )
Yes they are too fragile but above all, the game is not (or no longer) designed to integrate them and this is my big disappointment for me who is a recent player, I am faced with yet another video game designed for 12 year olds running arround without really trying to understand why.
I came across my first ground attack game,
- first objective “destroy enemy fighters”… sorry what? Are we talking about escorting bombers? Protecting Mosquitos from enemy fighters at low altitude? Should we destroy these fighters in preparation for a bombing raid or ground attack? no no just destroy fighters…
- composition of the teams:
1-2 bombers on each team (but it’s ground attack).
1-2 ground attack aircraft used as such.
1-2 players in premium heavy fighter or interceptor flying high in the sky (frak them, but at least they know their job).
And in the middle of the map a swarm of fighters fighting while ground units live their best lives.
For bombers or even attack planes to have a real role, for me it would be necessary to have ground attack games with a team that attacks and a team that defends and not two teams that have the same objectives, which would allow us to have a fleet of bombers with a mix of AI / players escorted by players in fighter planes who would defend them and once the game is over we reverse the roles, even the mediocre Battlefront 2 partially knows how to do that.
Same thing with ground attack planes, you divide the team into 2-3 small groups of ground-attack planes AI / player mixed with fighters to protect them and that would make a nice scenario.
The other condition for bombers to be playable is to give them more (much more) survivability, it’s just ridiculous when a simple fighter arrives and cuts off the bomber’s tail or makes it blow up with a single burst.
I don’t agree with the comment that calls for the return of super-effective machine gunners, at least at high altitude, I would leave them as they are (bad) and it’s up to you to defend yourself (it’s not that hard but not easy either contrary to what the swarm of idiots in fighters thinks), on the other hand at very low altitude where it is more difficult to manage both targetting and self-defense there I would boost them, fighters always keep the possibility to attack from above.
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I definitely agree with the idea of a defense/offense set up. I was also thinking of a “precision bombing” gamemode. You would be required to be in an attack plane or a bomber. Destroying other players would gain no points, but the AI ground units would move rapidly toward each other, firing at each other and mixing on the ground. Each player would gain points from destroying enemy ground units, while losing points for destroying friendly ground units. In order to relieve pressure, the units would move away from each other and engage other units over time, giving periods of “easier” attacks. Players would have to determine based on their bomb loads if they want to take a particular shot. Ground units could be scripted at first, but after a certain amount of time, 15 minutes, they would start taking each other out, eventually leading to a win for the leading team.
Obviously, this is a great deal of programming, but would give an opportunity for CAS practice without having to deal with fighter mafia as well as a forum for bombers/strike craft to be spaded. I know most players wouldn’t like that because bombers and strike craft would almost disappear from regular games, but I would find that fun.
Well, in the current state of the game, I’d say, no . . they are just fine. It’s next to impossible to kill most of them now without reloading at least once. There has been a HUGE nerf to hit detection and/or a massive shrinking of the hitboxes, making you have to actually kill something in air 3x - 4x more than before. This happened once back in late August or September, I forget really, but just as no notification was given for the nerf/change, suddenly it was simply gone & everything went back to normal in late October or early November. I do not know if it was an intentional nerfing of all Air combat modes, but in AB it was more than noticeable, it completely changed the entire way the game was played. Either some coding change sent the entire AB mode into this “nerf mode” or it was intentional to limit/dampen scoring . . . which it has done a very good job of so far. I have played various nations/planes/guns & ammo types, it is across the board. I have also noticed a “speed change” which they haven’t done in a good while, but the last two speed changes were not needed at all, and this too has made the mode even worse to play than before. Add all the spawns they have moved back and you have a real mess. Used to be a fun mode, get in, go fight, game over(and not too fast or slow) rinse & repeat . . . I guess those days are long gone and we are stuck with this near Tail Spin madness and OP planes all over the place that should just be regular fighters and not UFOs . . C’est la Vie . . . I play the game I am given and still enjoy it . . . for the most part. But one has to scratch their head and just wonder about these changes . . . and why we aren’t even told anything about them when they happen.
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