While I agree with this, there is nothing worst then being in spawn, doing your job keeping CAS away then having a guy roll up to you and you can defend yourself.
I feel like if you should have a very small zone with better protection for SPAAs who actually do their job instead of folding radar and just using it as a anti tank weapon.
Exactly, Gaijin make bigger maps and fix these silly exploits instead we have CQB stye gameplay and IFVs and SPAAGS dominate in close range, larger maps and SPAGS cannot hurt tanks.
Fast firing autocannons are the king of most CQC maps. Especially since alot of these vehicles are fast movers. Single shot tank cannons are just obsolete in WT. Not at every BR range, but for most. Thats also the reason why BMP-T is so insanely good. While other might fire a single shot every 6 seconds, this thing never stops firing. Alternatively ZSU’s, M53/59, M42, Leopard 40/70, R3, DCA40 (my fav, almost 100 pen at 5.0 BR). Everyone knows the culprits, probably alot more.
But why shouldn’t they? Most of these cost just a fraction to spawn, compared to a slow moving and slow shooting tank. Gajin is good at doing graphics, but basic game design is soso. Imagine a tank game where most ppl like to spawn zap zap zap autocannon vehicles, instead of actually tanks. Its an indicator that some things simply going the wrong direction.
To reiterate my positions:
1- I call for the reduction of Falcon with the removal of APDS.
1a- I’ve been calling for the removal of APDS to make Falcon usable as anti-air for over 2 years.
2- Speculative, if it doesn’t move down, I’ll still play the vehicle to impact stats.
A mistake on Gaijin’s part.
These are my criticisms of Gaijin.
APHE in general is bad but these vehicles bring it to another level since they’re able to spam hundreds of rounds per minute.
Was taking a breaking from the game at that point in time, so didn’t vote.
You’re still assuming people can just drive to you and side shot you. I’ve seen too many people getting killed when being greedy and doing this exact thing, so I don’t see an issue with this.
I think we’ll never agree on this one being true.
You are immortal frontally by the fact they have to drive up your side to kill you.
I’ve already mentioned a guy that knows much more of these events than me, so discuss it with him.
Just because you have something doesn’t mean it’s valid or that it should be used.
Concluding that TO in 2026 is unpopular because the event half a decade ago allegedly had low interest is a very weak argument, even when compared to average anti-TO argument.
Gaijin isn’t keen on totally overhauling their cash cow mode and risking a large chunk of their profits, so I doubt you’ll see things moving forward anytime soon when it comes to your suggestions.
You have a long road ahead of you before GRB isn’t something that will fuel salt and rage.
TO would actually give people some freedom of choice when it comes to their ground vehicles.
In plenty of cases you’d suddenly find helicopters are taking the helm from planes and continuing the CAS reign.
And alongside all the buffs to AA capability I propose, I would expect significant SP hikes on those AA, so that they would no longer be seen as “throwaway backup” vehicles.
The problem is that for SPAAG to protect their friendly team’s tanks, they must go to the enemy CAS, which will require killing tanks. By the time the CAS come hunt the AA at/near their own spawn, it’s already too late to save the match in most cases.
People are being surprisingly rational here, actually.
maps are often maze-like with no real ability to effectively bunker down at choke points on most of them, with too many potential approach angles to monitor. As a result of that, having extremely fast turret traverse is key. Mobility to reach interesting locations first is key. If you expect to be first you prioritize side shots, not front shots, so all you need is “enough” pen, not the highest pen in your BR. Ability to break gun barrels, even those frontally looking at you, also enables you to cripple people who otherwise would kill you that you can’t harm frontally, enabling you to rush up to their side and hose them dead. Armor gaps are everywhere on the majority of tanks not at high tiers due to developmental neglect. Stabilizers help too if you have them on your autocannon.
The M33/59 is not all that good in my experience - I was engaging a Panther side at almost point blank and half my shots shattered on impact, the other half did very little damage and it took almost a third of my ammo capacity to kill it.
They always will and do if given the chance. I expect it because teammates are unreliable in a random matchmaker outside squad play.
Barrel damage is a cancerous cheat allowed by the game - if you support it, all your complaints about SPAAG are invalidated in my eyes from this comment onward. If SPAAG could not melt gun barrels then in most frontal encounters the tank would kill the SPAAG every time outside APHEBS moments like M60 cupolas.
If your barrel is dead you cannot shoot them while they drive up to kill you. What’s the point in delaying the inevitable? I may as well just hold J the moment my barrel is taken out.
You are causing much of your own problems with SPAAG by refusing to remove the very thing that enables much of their shenanigans. It’s on par with how the community voted to not even test nerfing APHE.
A well-known forum troll who has proven incapable of coming up with an actually solid, well-thought-out idea for a game mode in total ignorance of potential damage said mode addition could cause to the rest of the game, yes you did.
I refuse to respond to that guy whenever he quotes or pings me. Him and I have nothing to discuss. He refuses to even acknowledge the potential downsides of the mode he’s proposing, let alone begin adapting the mode idea to preemptively solve those downsides before they’d become issues. You may not like my proposed reforms to SPAAG or CAS, but at least I am aware of potential issues they could cause and have adjusted my ideas over the years in response to other people pointing out said issues.
The ironic part is that such reforms would make CAS more useful overall to match outcome, give SPAAG/SAMs more targets to focus on so they have less reason to hunt tanks all day, make more of the available loadouts for CAS useful in Combined modes, and therefore increase sales of premium CAS platforms/talismans on tech-tree ones. And since most of the objectives I’m proposing are intentionally non-player targets, they wouldn’t come at tankers’ expense either, via reward coercion. Plus tanks could kill some of those too.
Literally every normal player benefits in some way. Diehard tankers get counters made available automatically that actually work. Dedicated fly-guys can use Fighters to hunt CAS early game and not have to cap-rush cheese to access them. CAS can do much more of its real logistical destruction role instead of directly antitank role.
Indeed, but I’m optimistic because the game already has all the components necessary to deal with all of that. It only needs to actually put them together properly.
The only things the game doesn’t yet have from what I have proposed to reform CAS are:
It’s tough to fix, but it IS fixable.
Theoretically yes it would. In practice things would be much messier.
And yes, I seriously do consider “faith that TO will solve GRB’s problems” as a “forum pseudo-religion.” It’s got all the characteristics when you really stop to think about it. Wishful thinking. Idea of the mode as a savior. Refusal to entertain the downsides of the idea. I was dragged to churches a lot by my parents and never clicked with their crowds for such reasons - I know religion when I see it.
It went from being really good, even at 8.3, to mediocre.
The 30mm APHE is good but not nearly as good as the 35mm APHE on other 8.3 SPAAs such as the Type 87, XM246, and Gepard.
So you effectively have one of those 8.3 SPAA with no search nor tracking radar, worse mobility / armour, and worse firepower… for a smaller profile and better gun depression.
I think the only way it would be fine to remove its APDS belt would be to lower it to 8.0 or 7.7.
It was straight up over performing at 8.3, so I’d say 8.0 is more than enough for starters.
I mean sure, though there’s the Veak 40 at 7.7 with a search and track radar, and also gets 68mm pen 40mm SAPHEI and 95mm pen AP… albeit a little less than half the firerate so maybe.
Also why is the Coelian still 7.0
VEAK gets less APHE shells in the belt compared to Falcon though 95mm pen AP is a clear advantage.
It also gets worse gun depression and has some funky gun position basically on the bottom of the turret.
Just Coelian things I guess.
Not only did they buff that fiction, they’re keeping it at an absurdly low BR too.
In my opinion, removed vehicles like that should be at the bottom of the barrel at their BR, not at the top for players’ sake.
I think all vehicles should be usable, so while having them be at the bottom of the barrel would help the rest of the tanks at their respective BRs not get stomped by them, they should at least be viable.
They should be in line with the worst vehicles at any given BR, so if that can’t be achieved move them up until that’s possible. Fearing fiction that was “removed” from the game and seeing them dominate shouldn’t happen, ever.
That said, Coelian should be moved up to 8.3 right this moment, at the minimum.
Having played around with just the APHE loads these 2 SPAA’s will be left with, I’m changing my mind on this being a significant nerf. Sure, they can’t melt heavies or mediums head-on just by spraying and praying. But they still can if they aim and lay 100rds through the copula’s in half a second. Everything still melts under their onslaught, it might just take a little more work and a bit better positioning.
This change won’t result in anything meaningful imo. Both SPAA are still deadly TD’s, and just as crappy against AC.
They raised the Falcon BR specifically beacuse of the apds.
With removal of apds the least they can do is re-set the BR to waht it was, if not lower.
I don’t disagree with the BR rollback, for the reasons you mentioned. The DCA should move down to 8.3 as well imo. I don’t see any reason for it to stay at 8.7 after the APDS is gone…actually it made no sense to me why it was there in the first place.
french tax
Thinking about it a little more, I suspect they will be doing the opposite and leave the Falcon and DCA where they are and move the remaining 8.3 APDS SPAA’s to 8.7. There’s only a couple left at 8.3 now.
that also works. It’s just attrocious that the DCA is higher while being worse
Just wait till u find out that the falcon is getting a radar it never had IRL…
just to clarify. because it lost APDS, doesnt mean that the loss of APDS isnt felt. im not your average player. i know my vehicles inside and out.
but your average player, just plays the game. plays the tank. once someone unlocks the falcon, cant properly fight a T tank, he will think it sucks, and it wont be played. we all know about the sidam. it lost the proximity shells, everyone hates it now. no one plays it.
falcon and amx dca are in the same boat.
while we are at it. falcon will receive a tracking radar. basically turning it into a glorified m163. however, according to the tankopedia, the falcon could be tested with the tracking radar, but it was never tested. so gaijin adds the tracking radar, on a hunch. the maus could have the 150mm cannon, but it didnt. so gaijin should now add a 150mm maus.
falcon also had side mountings ready for smoke discharges. go ahead, gaijin. give the falcon 20 smoke charges now.
